i will get the blog started with a question about the ASA job service, for anyone who is already reading...
i recently heard that most research universities schedule ASA interviews outside of the actual employment service and that a candidate should contact departments directly to set up these meetings. i was told that most schools who use the official employment service are doing so in order to drum up interest in their departments more than to actually interview candidates.
does anyone know if this is true? if you have done ASA interviews, either through the service or outside of it, was it valuable?
re: the ASA employment service, I did both the employment service and interviews scheduled in other ways. I recommend to my students and to others that you have a faculty member set up the outside interviews. Most schools are going to take it more seriously if the request comes from a faculty advisor. But direct contact is okay.
I still, however, think that one should do the employment service. I had something like 15 interviews at the employment service and only one led to a formal interview. But others could have if I had been interested in other types of jobs, or if I hadn't flubbed the conversation. My experience was that I totally screwed up my description of my dissertation and research interests the first maybe 10 times that I met with people, and I was really glad that at least some of those were at the employment service rather than in the half hour coffee meeting with the dept chair who thought the silk shirt with the top buttons open and the gold medallion hanging down was a sexy look. Hard to concentrate when faced with that, but I held my own after having done a bunch of employment service interviews.
I did the employment service (I didn't arrange any back-channel ASA interviews), and I got a job with a SLAC that I met with. Later, they said that they took the employment seriously.
My advice, do the employment service but schedule your interviews carefully (lump them together over one or two days). It's good practice, and for smaller schools it can mean something. But if you are a heavy-hitter and looking for ranked R1's, I wouldn't bother -- unless you are doing it for practice.
It's all done online... and they roll out one-by-one over the summer (until a few weeks before the meetings). I'm not sure when they start, check the ASA job bank site. All of the scheduling is done online (sort of like automated speed-dating).
My program doesn't do a great job with job search mentoring, so can I ask that people be explicit about what they mean by "outside interviews" (ie not employment service) at ASA? Are these semi-formal meet and greets? Do all schools that are hiring do these? Does this only happen if you have a tight/close connection with the chair of the search committee (like your advisor is a friend)? If you advisor won't do this for you, should you contact search chairs with an email saying you'll be at ASA and want to meet?
Unless your personality is a serious liability, the employment service can't hurt you. It can, however, be quite draining and inconvenient if you have appointments scattered across all four days. I'd advise limiting your availability to one day.
It does consist (primarily) of lower-tier schools who are trying to drum up applications so they are not like real interviews. Nonetheless, it's good practice, and if you make a connection with someone it could become a tie-breaker for a search committee.
the outside interviews (not employment service) are set up in a variety of ways. some schools solicit the "best" candidates from the top programs through their networks (professional acquaintances, not necessarily close friends). others will meet with people who send unsolicited emails. most schools do some sort of vetting, so if you email you should include a CV so that they can evaluate whether you would be a good fit for their position.
in general, these interviews are set up through networks, so any network that you have you should use. at my school, for example, the director of graduate studies puts a list of all students on the market in the mailbox of all faculty members and encourages them to mention these students to colleagues in search of applicants. the students also are encouraged to put some of their job market information in the mailboxes of key faculty members (who have similar research areas and would therefore get inquiries from faculty looking for people in those areas).
I remember doing the employment service and running back to my hotel room to do a quick internet search of the faculty at the next school I was interviewing with...
Glad I don't have to do that again...
Well, to be honest, the my place that hired me is going to be hiring again this year (I think)... so I'll probably still have to fill a chair at the table a few times so that a senior colleague can get lunch...
I did one informal interview at ASA last year. I was contacted out of the blue by someone on the search committee and am fairly sure they got my name off the department website.
It was a good experience. I really enjoyed meeting the 3 people who interviewed me and was really excited about the job, although I never would have thought to look there before they interviewed me. As it turned out, I did apply there and did not even make the first cut.
But I now know that if there is a job I think I might be interested in, these informal interviews are a good way to find out more. I plan to ask my adviser to make calls on my behalf this time around and set some of these up.
It probably takes a while for a bad economy to affect the demand for jobs (though we may see a spike in grad school applications right away). However, i think it will affect supply immediately--for example, my department *was* slated to hire in two areas this coming year, but we're now going to have to fight for those, and likely will only get one.
My department isn't hiring anyone next year due to financial constraints. This isn't so unusual (they don't hire every year) but since there is a real need for people, and we recently lost people, it is a little stark.
Deans allot new faculty positions to a large extent based on student major enrollment trends, because departmental "need" is usually defined in practical not intellectual terms. Sociology is doing well as a major and as a source of general education enrollment. Make yourself seem to be a valuable future colleague by being able to connect your specialization with that department's courses and with student careers.
If you like to be thoroughly prepared for a visit, you can even estimate the department's future retirement patterns by looking at faculty ages. If you see that the two main theory instructors are in their late 60s, let it be known that you enjoy teaching theory.
This is hardly a "boom" period for sociology hiring but with crafty planning and widespread applications you can get a good position.
Seems like there are few positions thus far. When do the announcements usually come out? Does the ASA service list the institutions participating beforehand?
There are a few early announcements in June in the regular ASA job bank, but most come out in July and August. Keep close watch, as the deadlines are getting earlier and earlier!
Get your apps in ASAP for posts that come up early - just because they give a deadline doesn't mean they won't start looking at files as soon as they're complete and setting up interviews. Factor in the time it'll take for your packet to get there and be opened and sorted. Of course, this doesn't mean they actually get moving by their deadline either...
Seems like every few years there is a study like this to justify the continuing production of PhDs. The problem with this is that it doesn't consider whether jobs are at all desirable. Beyond the question of prestige, if you look at many of the postings in the job bank, they are for schools with high teaching loads and low salaries. And often in parts of the country where it might be hard for a candidate's partner to find a job, academic or not. So, right away, probably a third of the jobs listed are not going to work for most applicants.
DON'T CONTACT DEPARTMENTS DIRECTLY to ask to meet informally at ASA! This is a huge no no. Any and all contact should first be through your advisor. ASA is not a job fair (as it is for econ.), and so the informal meetings are not interviews. The job market does not really kick off till fall, and at this early stage you should NOT contact schools for meetings unless your advisor has given the green light. Trust me, etiquette matters a lot in this process.
I have to agree; I'm sure it wouldn't doom you but we would not look kindly on such a request if it came out of the blue. If you really want to meet with a place; ask your advisor to find someone in the dept. to talk to.
I'm at a top ten department and I was on the market this past year (and got a job, don't ask why I'm here). My committee members were, supposedly, talking me up, but I directly contacted department chairs and search committee chairs who were at schools that had job postings by August but that weren't doing the ASA employment service. These tend to be the higher ranked departments. That's how students in my department usually do it (sometimes, our committee members get emails fishing for strong students, too).
I got turned down by Univ of MI and UC-Berkeley (berkeley told me that they don't meet with anyone), but I had at least 4-6 very good informal meetings. (I did this the previous year with a few schools too but then didn't go on the market). This year, I got one interview at a school I met with informally (and I probably would've gotten a job offer there but I had to take a different offer sooner). I found out later that I was very close runner up for 2 other schools that I met with informally.
All of this is to say that I guess I never ran into this etiquette problem that others mentioned, at least not as far as I could tell. And I like to think that I'm pretty observant about such things.
This discussion of networking makes me wonder, what should you do if your committee members aren't going to talk you up? I finished in 2007 (1 top 10 department) and have been in a postdoc for a year and have another postdoc lined up for next year. I've been productive, publishing several articles and getting started on a book, so my CV is a lot stronger this time around (2nd time on the market). But here's the thing. Two of my committee members are no longer at the university where I got my PhD. The 3rd is there, but rarely responds to emails. They always write the recommendations, and I'm told the content is good. But they are not very responsive to emails, and I am pretty sure that they have never talked me up. I can't even get feedback on a draft cover letter! At this point, I feel like I've done as much as I can to make myself competitive, but I'm concerned I'll slip through the cracks and not get interviews because no one's heard of me. For various reasons, I can't be at ASA this year, though will be at some other conferences in the fall. So what should my strategy be? Make myself even more of a pest than I was during the dissertation writing process (which had mixed results), and bombard them with draft cover letters and research statements in the hope that this reminds them I exist? Hope that my CV speaks for itself and that networking doesn't really make that much difference in the end? Try to market myself at the other conferences I'll be attending?
clearly there are multiple ways to look at this... for sake of conversation, i personally would welcome a potential colleague who is taking the initiative to find a good match for her/himself, and acting as a confident independent scholar. but then... i loathe the paternalistic nonsense that pervades academia, and this would also depend on style and substance. aggressive self promotion can be a turn off, for sure, but a thoughtful and well-substantiated approach would be welcome in my book.
Don't over-analyze your situation with your advisors. It's easy to feel slighted when the reality may be that they're just busy with other things. Don't react to feeling slighted by being a "pest.. and bombard them with draft cover letters and research statements." Save the "pest" routine for when you get notice that their letter did not arrive.
In terms of faculty no longer being at your former institution, is this because they moved on to bigger or better things or for other reasons? Generally their moving on shouldn't be a problem for your applications or networking.
Here's some concrete advice: (1) Add new folks to your mentor list. Someone at your current post-doc, for example, should be able to speak to your current productivity, etc. Make sure you have some balance in your list of mentors -- folks who can speak to different aspects of your work (and personality). (2) Get editing help from OTHERS for your cover letter. Collect examples of "good" and "bad" cover letters (and other application materials). I still have a folder I started in grad school when my program held "how-to" job market sessions. (3) Treat your former faculty with more respect and act more self-sufficent. It's not their job to edit your letters or research statement. (I'd expect that approach would turn them off.) Don't grovel, but do remember to thank them for all the help they've provided you. These are relationships that you may need to keep cultivating over the years. (4) Because faculty do move on, keep your reference list contact information as current as you can. It can be helpful to include a dept office telephone number along with the direct line number.
In response to 7:11, I have served on several search committees at my institution (RI) for various positions. Although an n of 1, perhaps this will be useful. Concerning applicants, the first thing I have always looked at is the CV. If the CV is not competitive in terms of especially publications, presentations and perhaps grant activity, frankly the cover letter and letters of recommendation get little attention. (Competitiveness clearly varies by a) institution and b) area.) For those applicants that are competitive, I spend much more time examining the cover letter. (For those applicants that do not bother with letters with information about research interests, current research, future research plans, teaching background and/or interests, BIG mistake. Also a big mistake: poorly written letters.) After that, I consider the letters of recommendation. Usually they are glowing so the ones that are not actually receive even more attention. It is not unusual for all letters not to be in the file on time, although I have heard of institutions that do not allow consideration of files until they are complete. If I or others in the department know the letter writers or others in the program from which the applicant graduated/expects to graduate, some phone calls may be placed. Ultimately, though, the strength of the applicant's CV is key determining factor in whether the other items in the file matter.
is it good, bad, or neither to have one of your letters written by a non-sociology PhD?
i am doing a post-doc at an academic research institute and the person i have worked the most closely with is an endowed chair professor in policy. s/he is very well-known in that field, but i have heard that it is bad to have any letters from non-sociology people.
my options are to either have this person write me a very strong letter referencing our frequent collaborations and multiple papers together, or get a letter from someone on my dissertation committee who is a sociologist but has had little interaction with me outside of giving feedback on a couple drafts of dissertation chapters. i know the dissertation committee person would write a good letter, but it would likely not be as rich as the non-sociologist i work with more often.
I'm finding the wait for departments to list positions unbearable. Has anyone ever contaced departments to see if they will be hiring, prior to any listings being listed? Is that too taboo? There are a handful of departments that I'd like to contact to see if they'll be hiring this year.
My two pieces of advice (it's my second time around):
1. Don't Do It! They'll post when they post. They may or may not know by now, depending on how soon things happen at their department, or they may still be figuring out hiring priorities.
2. Figure out a way to calm down now. Sorry, there should be a gentler way to say that, but last year postings were going up well after the ASAs, and good jobs were still posted (or reposted) in the new year, after a round of interviews came up empty or a current asst. professor took a job somewhere else and left a hole or a late-starting department finally got approval. Postings gradually transitioned over to visiting professorships and postdocs well into the spring.
I know I am not the only one that found it way too easy to get obsessed with checking job boards and this place instead of doing real work. If you can at all, find ways to segment the job market from the rest of your life and limit its place.
Oh, final thing: If you really do want to try to figure out if a program's hiring, try the following things first, in decreasing order of reasonableness: ask people you know who might know someone there. check out their faculty list to see if it looks like they recently hired (this will mean more for small places, of course). see if they already have person/people who are in your area (maybe it won't matter even if they are hiring). see if it looks like people are going to retire/did retire last year. search their institution's website to see if maybe there's some mention of some approval process in a public document.
Re: the June 20, 8:17 posting. If the person with whom you are working most closely is well known in policy, having a letter from him/her should be an asset, especially if that is something that you are presumably interested in your work. I would, however, try to have the other letters from sociologists in case there are any concerns about this issue among search committee members.
I edited the previous post to remove the line that identified the author by their "blog name". If the community would like me to not edit for anonymity, just let me know. The comment was:
Inside Higher Ed discussion of the ASA Jobs Report posted by XXXXXXX on 6/17.
Obviously I need to shoehorn incarceration or deviance into my diss. somehow
Yes, thanks for the deletion. I'm the person who made the post in question.
Thing is, I'm pretty sure I selected "Anonymous" and checked to be sure that my name wasn't listed after it was posted. Was that the issue, or was the problem that I identified the person who posted the original article by the name with which s/he signed his/her post? I see that this information is X'ed out in the re-post.
Just want to clarify the blog's standards for future reference. Thanks!
Thoughts on going to the ASA job service interviews if you are probably not going on the job market this year?
I am newly ABD, and have received conflicting advise from committee members. One thinks I should try to write a chapter or two in the next 2-3 months and go on the job market this year, or at least go on it 'light' and apply to a few jobs.
The other (my chair) thinks I am not ready to go on the job market yet, and that I should try to finish as much of my dissertation as possible this year, finish up some other projects and try to get them published this year, and go on the job market next year. I tend to agree with the second one- that I am not ready.
This second adviser has also advised that I go to the ASA job service as 'practice' for interviewing next year. I feel like I am not even ready to go on the job market 'light' and it's kinda weird to take up people's time with interviews when there's little to no chance that I will be applying to those jobs, and that I can use next year's ASA to practice for job talks, right before I actually go on the job market.
gee, i think you are kind of answering your own questions, really. if you don't feel you are ready, you aren't! i also agree that it is a waste of time to interview when your dissertation is not yet well-developed (also a waste of time for interviewers and those who are really looking for jobs). you won't have much to talk about and risk giving a less-than stellar impression. it can be a small world.
I agree that it is a waste of time to go on the job market unless you are really ready. I went on the market as a new ABD with only 1 publication in a small journal. Out of 40 applications, I got 40 rejection letters.
It is a waste of time and energy - which could be better spent finishing the dissertation and getting something in print before you try and sell yourself.
so, I don't feel ready to go on the market this year, but my advisor thinks that I am, and wants/expects me to. How do I have the conversation with him that I want another year?
12:12, do you have another year of funding? If so, then this conversation with your advisor will be much easier. I would recommend mapping out the two years one quarter/semester at a time -- demonstrate what you plan to get finished and when, and why a year is not practical for your plan, or for the kind of job you desire.
If you don't have another year of funding left from your department, then I would go along with your advisor and get on the market.
Good advice on setting a meeting and having your next year to 2 years planned out.
Stick to your guns, this is your career after all, Nothing could be worse for you than to actually apply for a job that you like this year, get that job and not be finished with your dissertation...
Just saw this, it came out this month. According to this article, In 2006 (most recent year of data) there were 610 ASA job listings for assistant professors, and 562 phd's awarded. Of course this doesn't include people coming off postdocs, assistant profs back in the job market, etc, and all these jobs are not at R1's, but it's a bit encouraging :)
Just curious out there -- what is the rate of post-candidacy attrition in other departments? At my R1, I would say 50% of ABDs do not go on to finish the Ph.D. We send a lot of people to non-academic jobs. Is this typical?
I'm at an R1 and based on my non-scientific observations over the past 6 years, I would say we have a very low ABD attrition rate.
I'd estimate that maybe 25% of people who start do not complete the PhD, but most leave after the MA with a smaller bunch leaving after comps but before the proposal. I can't think of anyone who left ABD as long as I have been here.
Very few people from my department end up in non-academic positions - maybe 1 a year.
in my R1 program, I only know of 1 person in the past four years who officially dropped out after being ABD. Then we have at least 3-5 people who have been ABD for a very long time and are officially still enrolled, but might not ever finish. Many have moved far away, supposedly working on their dissertation while working full time. However, many drop out before reaching ABD status; my cohort started with 8 and now has 5.
In recent memory, most people go on to academic jobs, probably around 85%. The rest go on to postdocs or industry jobs.
are there any assistant profs on the board? i am pessimistic about the job market and about a career in soc. as far as i can tell, job satisfaction seems abysmally low prior to tenure, and i have heard of fewer and fewer benefits to working in academia versus private industry or academic administration. so, to anyone out there who is tt, are you any happier than you were in grad school? what aspects of your job to you enjoy? finally, many people note that academics have good job flexibility. do you find this to be the case? what exactly is meant by flexibility? work from home, choose your hours, etc. many, many thanks.
I haven't started my new job yet, but it is really nice to be done with grad school. Moving into a real office (you know, with a phone and a window) can do wonders for your outlook on life.
There was a discussion on the CHE forums under "Tenure Track" about the perqs of academic life. It might help you get out of your funk.
I'm starting my second year on the TT, and I'm loving life (seriously). I pick up my kids from school 2 days per week at 3pm, and don't work in the evenings except when grading. I try only to work Sat. mornings and not the rest of the weekend. Settling into teaching was the most challenging thing for me, but now that my preps are done for a while I think this year will be even better. I can leave work anytime I want for kid things. I am blessed with great colleagues, which makes a big difference, too. I am not at a superstar place, but a good place, with reasonable tenure standards. I took all of that into account when choosing a job. Hope this helps.
I have now had tenure for a few years. The post-tenure life is much better than pre-tenure life. The stresses are different in many ways in an academic job than in graduate school, and there are a lot more of them, especially in the first year or so (new preps, getting research projects under way, navigating the school and the department, service commitments, finding the grocery store, etc. etc.). The pre-tenure pressure can also be very difficult, although I am at a place where tenure standards are uncertain and always rising, few colleagues who get along, and (at the time) few protections for junior people as far as new preps, service, etc. (these are a few things to ask about when interviewing, for sure). However, despite the stresses, I always had flexibility with my time and schedule, something that friends who went into the 'real' world do not. Being able to work on that which interests you, rather than what you are told to work on, is also a great benefit to working in academia. While I was not always sure pre-tenure if academia was the right way to go, I can say now that I am very glad I did.
I'll post another one. I am a couple years past tenure, having spent 4 years at a lower-ranked R1 school and 4 years at a higher-ranked place. Being a tenure-track prof, in my opinion, is the kind of job that most people working regular jobs couldn’t imagine. A few years into the tenure clock, my wife and I had a child with very significant medical needs (as well as two other children along the way). We often talk about just how we could have managed if I didn’t have a job with the exceptional flexibility mine has. When I don't have family obligations, I am usually in the office from about 9:30-3:30 each day, and usually work for a bit after the kids go to bed, and I am perceived in my department as someone who is around all the time. Throw in that I spend those working hours largely focusing on what I choose, it’s a hard gig to beat. I highly recommend it if you can get it.
If people don't mind sharing, I'd like to get a sense of the types of jobs that one should realistically consider given different publishing and teaching backgrounds. I'm not on the market this year, but I am having a hard time figuring out whether I will be a better candidate next year for an R1, R2, or what.
2:05 I tried to have this conversation with my advisor once. He squashed it by saying I should just apply to anything that might fit and let the schools themselves figure out where I belonged. Sound advice that I ignored, because you have to obsess about something when you're gearing up for the market.
Anyway, one word of advice: keep in mind not just what you might need to get a job at a given location, but what you'll need to get tenure there too. Look at the websites of the type of schools you are interested in, and see how much their faculty are publishing, and where.
I don't know if this is the right place to post this:
I'm negotiating a post-doc deal at an R1 in a big city. What should I ask for? What kind of salary, benefits? Other things that may not occur to me? What split of time for my work/the project's work should I ask for or expect?
I'm having the same experience, but I'm not sure how much of that is because I didn't get a job last year.
In my area there are almost as many jobs this year as there were last year at this date. It does seem like there were more top liberal arts schools and higher-ranked research departments to get excited about, though. But, again, I may just not be as excitable.
My impression is that the job listings are highly stratified this year - we see several elite schools and a large number of lower tier schools and SLACs, but not many middle-ranking R1s (say, ranking 20-60). Now I have about 12-13 on my list, but most of them are open area positions and only 2 are really in my specialties. (And as a qualitative person I find the posts requiring strong quantitative skills particularly obnoxious...) I'm hoping more listings will come after the ASA.
On the job pool, the recession is biting into budgets, until it gets better it is likely that pools will be smaller. Naturally, this affects state university systems and financially weaker private institutions first.
I saw this info on some earlier version of the soc job market rumor mill but now I can't find it...I have a professional website, and would like to add some kind of tracker thing that will tell me where visitors are coming from, so I can see if people from schools I am applying to are checking out my page/CV/etc. Any suggestions for a program that will do that?
An ip tracker? Seems like something that will just create more anxiety. OMG, someone at Michigan (probably another grad student) just looked at my webpage!
I've been tracking my page for 3 weeks now. It makes me feel better to know I'm not the only grad student out there who looks at other students' CVs. Quite a few of y'all have visited me in the run-up to ASA.
I just installed StatCounter for my homepage and it looks really fun! It is always good to know where your visitors come from, no matter for job search or not. Thanks 3:48!
Along the lines of making contacts, I'd like to add that I have found it very helpful to attend some smaller conferences in your specialty area. At ASA, it is hard to make good new contacts because people are just so busy and have already made plans. You might have a nice chat after a presentation, but that it about it.
At a smaller conference, you are likely to meet people who share your interests and who have the time to talk about it with you. There also seem to be more faculty and fewer grad students at such conferences, which is nice if you are on the market and looking at make contacts. I recently attended a conference at which I ended up having dinner every night with 2-3 people I had just met and developed a couple of really promising job leads as well as future collaborations.
My advice is to look beyond just ASA when exploring conference networking opportunities.
What's up with the University of California schools? Very few of them have ads posted so far in the job bank. Last year they all had deadlines around September 10. Does anyone know if Irvine, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, UCLA, etc. are going to be hiring?
Re: 9:40 The UC system is dealing with state budget cuts. There are currently rumors of hiring freezes as well as pay cuts for existing employees within the system so there may not be any positions available this year.
UCLA and UC Davis have positions listed in the ASA Job Bank.
Most of the UNC schools hired last year and I have not heard any plans to hire this year from Wilmington or CH. NC State haired a couple positions last year. Someone recently told me Duke may be planning to post a position soon but that is not confirmed.
I'm growing more and more convinced that we are in for a big drop-off in available positions this year. One indication: last year's ASA employment service listed 126 positions, this year's has 74. And once one starts crossing off the less desirable jobs it begins to look particularly dire. I'm especially bummed because I would like to do a post-doc, but now I fear that those positions are going to be allotted based on intense competition among the folks who ordinarily would have been candidates for the top TT jobs that aren't out there this year.
The party line seems to be that it's too early to get concerned, but I wonder how much longer that line of reasoning will hold water.
the uc schools will not be hiring unless they had positions that were budgeted last year and not filled (there may be exceptions to this but they will be few and far between). the hiring freeze, at least at my school, is fact, not rumor. they all will take a 10% cut this year -- i've heard the cal state system will also be taking a big hit.
Expressed interest in 8, heard back from 4. Received 6 unsolicited invites (no interest notification sent). Turned down one of them. Total of 9 interviews. Sorry, that was confusing.
When you say UCLA advertised a job you mean the dean of social sciences job or a job that most of us in this blog could apply for (Assistant professor?). I only saw the dean job advertised
10:04: The employment service is up to 84 jobs now. So, we're still down 42 jobs from last year (about 33%).
Two schools of thought:
A lot of folks in my department bad-mouth the ASA employment service and have said that more and more schools are opting out of it. So, maybe decreased numbers signal that.
Alternatively, maybe the economy really is cutting down on the number of institutions hiring. If so, I wonder how much that will offset the gains made by baby boomers retiring (the story we've all been told for years).
Bottom line, I'm not going to worry about it. Do the best you can and what happens, happens.
If anyone who follows this blog met with folks from Northeastern at ASA, would you be willing to share any info you learned? I'm happy to do the same regarding the places I met with: St. Edwards and Angelo State.
I met with Northeastern and the two faculty were lovely, and represented the school and department well. They took a surprisingly long time to get to know me, and describe the dept. (And I know that I'm not the only one who they did that with, as well.) It was so much more civilized than the Employment Service. They definitely increased their stock in my mind.
If people are curious about how many others interviewed with various schools at ASA, perhaps we could add a category to the sociology job wiki (http://socjobs2009.wikidot.com/). For example, put a "x(asa)" next to the school's name if you met with them.
Tenured prof here who took part at the ASA job search as an interviewer. We are a very competitive liberal arts college, and we take the ASA employment service seriously. We use it primarily to screen people for their interest in us, demeanor, fit with our needs and whether they are "normal." Not much one can tell from 20 minutes, but it is a start. It gives us one more piece of info and pathway, along with relying on our personal networks to solicit candidates. (That can be trickier than one might think. We have different networks, and it is difficult to turn away the students of friends we have at major R1s. There is less political fallout going this route.)
If you talked to a school at ASA you are seriously intersted in, a brief email note thanking them for their time would be helpful.
I also participated in the ASA employment service, and I did find it a helpful experience.
Most graduate students I spoke with during ASA were friendly. However, I was completely taken aback by how many people in the Employment Service area were throwing nasty glances around, sizing up the competition. And the stampede to the interview tables! Geez!
Maybe it's just me, but I think everyone would do well to take a deep breath and chill out a bit. The competitive spirit doesn't reflect well on our discipline, IMHO.
Maybe what you perceived as mean stares were actually people who were nervous or trying to mentally prepare? I didn't pick up on any bad vibes at all, and I spend a lot of time in those chairs by the bell!
I think the mad rush to the tables was simply an effort to give each school their full 20 minutes.
Ok. I'll just preface by saying that I thought I had a successful run at the ASA. However, I'm going to breathe a little fire here. This comment--on potential employers analyzing the nonverbal cues (e.g., 'nasty glances') of job candidates who are participating in such an overdetermined, stressful, and ultimately ineffective process (again, there are *so* few jobs that arise out of this speed dating)--is just evidence of how silly the Employment Service is. And advice like 'chill out' is pretty weak tea. I say scrap the whole thing. Treat people like meat, and you'll get a few bad looks, and awkward conversations.
(Why, for example, does there have to be a bell? Why not just offer a room where schools decide how much time they want to spend with someone? Why keep people nervously in a holding pen? It is as if, as a discipline, we've never heard of rationalization and bureaucratization... let alone the Presentation of Self.)
Get a cup of coffee and sit down with candidates that you are serious about and have a pleasant, substantive, informal chat rather than asking candidates to outline their five-year research agenda or asking them how they would teach theory to their in two minutes. It sounds like the folks at some schools came correct, spent time with their candidates, and I'm going to apply enthusiastically because of it. The truth of the matter is, however, that the market is competitive, I'll have to apply to those schools who offered up 'gotcha' questions too...
That's what I did. For those place I will wind up applying, I also intend to mention again in my cover letters that I enjoyed meeting them at ASA, etc.
I must say, I have always found this cattle call to be a horrid, insulting function. And yet each year it is reconstituted. There is a fascinating and irony-rich sociological analysis just waiting to be published...
I interviewed at one school where they asked me whether I would like one or two time slots. I took two, and having 40 minutes instead of 20 was very nice. I also felt that I learned a lot more about the department and their needs.
If I ever sit on the other side of the table, that is something I'd like to do for candidates.
I'd like to defend the employment service. If we allowed everyone to take as much time as they wanted, some candidates would monopolize a school's time, leaving fewer opportunities for others. Even with the 20-minute slots, some schools (UBC) still filled up quickly and ran out of space. Also, I didn't notice any nasty glances. If anything, we seemed to give looks of commiseration to one another. Most people know that we're all in the same boat and thus, I didn't detect any bad feelings.
One comment on here noted that few jobs actually come out of Employment Service. Do we know this? I once thought the same thing and then several faculty members I know mentioned that they received a few on-campus interviews from folks they met through the Employment Service. Plus, it's a way for candidates to assess whether they even want to apply. Two of my interviews turned me off so completely that I'm sure I won't be applying. It's also good practice in packaging yourself for on-campus interviews. So, it serves our interests as job-seekers as well.
I must say that interviewing (my role this yr) is much better than being interviewed, and it does seem a dehumanizng process.
From the hiring point of view, I will say that for some candidates the 20 min went by way too fast, while for others it was clear after 10 minutes that we were not a good match, and time dragged. Two slots would be nice, if one could figure out in advance which candidates one would like to talk with for 40 minutes! We would wonder why some candidates even expressed interest in our school since it was obvious that s/he had no idea where our university was located, what areas we were looking to fill, or what the nature of our institution was. Grunting one word responses and not making eye contact was not a way to indicate interest.
From the hiring point of view, the process is also crazy. It costs a fair amount of $$ to bring in a limited number of candidates. After phone interviews with a short list, we will fly three in for a final evaluation. Undoubtedly, really good people get passed over--sometimes for what might seem crazy reasons (she remineds me of someone else, etc). On the other hand, we might bring in really strong candidates only to lose them to Harvard, Williams, or the like. So finding a good fit on a rather limited collection of info for a tenure track position is not the best.
Some thoughts from the hiring end, which may be obvious. It is a very good idea to check out the university and dept web page, and then let the school that you have done this IF you think you might be interested in the school.
An email thanks is very good. If you are really interested, send a personal note of thanks.
Be careful what info you post on the internet. Some schools will google you. I have done that with past candidates and found some very interesting info. Pictures of yourself intoxicated and profanity laced blogs are not such a good idea!
Just curious as to if anyone has a sense of whether it is a "good" year to be on the market? It may just be me but the number of jobs seems low for this time in August.
the total number of postings are the least relevant factor. more relevant are the number of postings that fit your qualifications and the competition pool for those specific jobs. the former you can know, the latter is always a mystery...
the total number of postings are the least relevant factor. more relevant are the number of postings that fit your qualifications and the competition pool for those specific jobs. the former you can know, the latter is always a mystery...
Good point - the job market depends on both supply and demand. On the demand side, I have to agree that it seems that there are fewer postings this year than in years past. Given that the majority of jobs are always open searches, it probably does indicate lower demand if there are fewer open searches.
While I have no idea what other schools are like, I can say that at my top-5 department, there are as many highly-qualified people with impressive publication records and/or outstanding teaching records on the market as in previous years.
In my top 25 program we have more job market candidates than in previous years. Obviously, we are not competing for the same jobs as the top 5 program candidates are but we still factor into the larger mix.
Does anyone have a sense of the extent to which department ranking does matter? I know it is hard to quantify, and all things being equal a graduate from a highly-ranked department likely has an edge over someone from a less highly-ranked one (not that I am endorsing this, just stating a fact). However, all things are never equal. In the overall mix of publications, teaching experience, grants, awards, etc, how does department ranking fit in?
And PS: I am already burned out on the job market ;)
Having sat on two search committees, my experience is that school rank trumps nearly all other considerations. On several occasions I would hear colleagues remark "it would be great to have a *top school* student" or "it would be great to have a student of *important advisor*."
A related question - is it useful for posters to this blog to indicate the rank of their school? Or is it just a way to assert status on an otherwise anonymous blog?
I mentioned my school rank because it seems relevant to know that a top-5 school has lots of candidates on the market this year, given the assertion that department rank matters to SCs.
I concur that school rank trumps just about everything else. The one exception might be if you are coming from a very-good-but-not-great place, with a rising-star advisor in your subfield - and they are hiring in that subfield.
In my experience (just a few searches), having a top (ASR, SF, AJS) pub will lift you into the "yes" pile if you are not from a top 20 program - but otherwise it is tough to get into that "yes" pile.
I think identifying your program's rank is mostly to situate yourself and your comment; to demonstrate your perspective and how it may be limited; but we should be conscious of status markers.
I agree, mentioning rank is only to provide perspective on your comments. As far as needing to be top 20 to get into a yes pile, do you mean any yes pile or schools with PhD programs or...?
I chose my program based on working with my advisor who is well-established in my particular subfield. I'm very confident of the advisor's name-recognition, but less certain of the ranking of my program.
There are many rankings. Per the Princeton Review:
1 University of Wisconsin--Madison 2 University of Michigan--Ann Arbor 3 University of Chicago 4 Harvard University 5 University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill 6 University of Pennsylvania 7 Stanford University 8 University of Washington 9 University of California--Los Angeles 10 Northwestern University
Per US News and World Reports...
1. University of Wisconsin--Madison 2. University of California--Berkeley 3. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor 4. University of Chicago University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill 6. Princeton University Stanford University 8. Harvard University University of California--Los Angeles 10. University of Pennsylvania
I think publications matter more than ranking. Plenty of people from lower ranked schools do well on the market, and I have known many people in my own top-5 department that have struggled to find a job. Your advisor's ability to network on your behalf matters, of course. But so does your CV!
3:51 here. As for the 'yes' pile, I am writing from the perspective of a PhD-granting department (lower-ranked R1), where it would be hard to get a close look without a top-20 degree or top pub.
To get an idea of how this works, look at the recent hires of places you'd like to get a job - where did they get their PhDs? What pubs did they likely have when they were on the market?
This can help you get an idea of your chances (but of course there are tons of variables!).
Well, I guess it will be a major miracle if I land an academic job then - seeing as how my degree is from a lesser ranked R1 (definitely NOT in the top 10 lists, but I certainly knew that!)
On the other hand, I'm extremely well networked and respected in the practitioner-side of my sub-field. At least I have a back-up option to academia!! (And the pay is much better than adjunct work as well..)
Is anyone else thinking of Plan B? Given the few number of postings thus far plus all the Big 10 talk, I'm getting discouraged...!!
@ 10:33, FWIW, my degree will be from a top 3 department, I am well networked, 3 diss chapters are ready, interesting topic and yet I am totally freaked out at times about being on the academic job market because my pub situation is not great. My advice to myself and to you is: 1) read the posts here but remember that this is a very biased sample of posters (in exactly what ways I'm not sure), so don't let what you read here freak you out, factor it in with other things you're getting from other sources and just try to stay focused on the things you can control like dissertation writing; 2) remember how academic committees more generally work, scary, yes but also back to the control issue, just let it go, present yourself in the best possible light, be professional and humble and try to follow the instructions for applications but don't get too obsessive, 3) just keep working on your research, do a decent job teaching and see what happens, 4) always have a plan B (and C, etc.) because most everyone is not going to get an R1 job (if that's your goal), and plenty of people will not even get an academic job this year. If you, like me, have interests outside of academia, I say always keep that as an option. And don't let your ego or bitterness get in the way of just having a happy, healthy life. OK, I don't know if that helps anyone or not but I feel better : )
Excellent point! My advice is to start by thinking of the characteristics you'd like in a job: autonomy, good pay, peer respect, whatever. Then look for jobs that offer those things. It is an artifact of the status-driven structure of academia that non-academic jobs are often seen as the "plan B" for people who "couldn't land a TT job". However, jobs outside of academia can offer much more than a TT job depending on your specific goals.
And yes, always having a back-up plan is really smart! I have my dissertation basically done with several articles under review and multiple publications, but I will not be shocked if I don't land a job this year. Disappointed, yes, but not shocked. The job market can be so very random...
my plan B job is to get a quant analysis job at a government bureau like the census or the BLS or the CDC.
The national center for education statistics just sent around a job ad looking for a phd with quant skills and an interest in education policy..starting pay was like 90k a year. Another advantage of those plan b jobs are that some of them pay a LOT more than t-t jobs. :)
Just a quick comment on status markers and the job market from a current search committee member.
It is my impression that posters are tending to treat the most significant variables in getting interviews (advisor, publications, rank of program) as absolute determinants of outcomes on the job market. They aren't.
Of course all of these things are important, but the job market is tiered. The farther you get from top-10 programs the more other variables start to matter.
Finally, in my limited experience, actually getting the job depends disproportionately on job talk performance.
My take on all the "Top 10," "Top 5" talk: It's a way that folks from the Top 5 or 10 make themselves feel better about their prospects. I'm at a Top 30 or 50 research school, but certainly not a Madison or Berkeley and you know what? We've had 20ish Ph.D.'s in the last 2 or 3 years and every single one has a tenure-track job; some of them very desirable ones. So, you might not land a job at Columbia if you're not coming from a top-ranked program, but the notion that you won't land a tenure-track job is just foolishness, so long as you've published and have good teaching experience.
If you're at a lower ranked school, there's a higher probability you'll end up at a small liberal arts college, which I think are often left out of this discussion. Maybe the thread should be renamed "Miscellaneous Discussion of the (Research University) Job Market."
From @2:06 to @3;52 Wow, I just read back through the comments and I don't get that from what anyone said!!
Trust me, if I had it to do over again, I would definitely not go to the "Top 5" ranked program where I ended up. In fact, I recently steered a top prospect to another grad program and I'm always delighted to hear how happy the person is at the lower-ranked dept., knowing they would have been miserable here. In addition to the soul (and pub)-crushing years it takes to get through this program, our graduates do not do that well overall on the job market, from what I can tell. It's hard to say really because that information isn't made available through either formal or informal means.
Since dept. rank is one piece of the whole puzzle here, I think it's worthwhile sometimes to mention it. Also, it's simply been a useful bit of context to add to one's comments. Anyone who thinks, or thinks that anyone else thinks, that dept. rank is all it takes to get a job is simply being silly. I think we're really all sophisticated enough social scientists here to know that getting a job is a combination of factors, some very transparent, some not so.
As for SLACs, everyone I know on the job market from my dept. is applying to all of them and many of the grads I know about have ended up at one. As I said in my earlier post, I'm scared of not getting a job ANYwhere. At least half of my apps are going to SLACs and happily so ... I love to teach and I did my undergrad at a SLAC.
The other point about being at a "Top 5" or "Top 3" as in my case, is that it's kind of like being the super pretty girl in high school (or college, or ok, in life) ... you're always the target, in good ways and bad ... you're most likely to be labeled a snob by people who don't even know you and most likely to be alone on a Sat. night because everyone just assumes you wouldn't go out with them.
So that's what I worry. Without pubs, I won't make it into an R1, a lot of the R2s are up and coming R1s that won't take a chance on me with no pubs, and the SLACs assume a person like me (all this research experience) wouldn't want them, can't teach, etc. So I'm just trying to stay calm and hope for the best ... including that I don't get crushed by the "Top 5" backlash. Wouldn't that be perfect? Sigh. Is it too late for medical school?
Thanks so much to the encouraging posters. Actually, I found most of the comments (minus the deriding ones) pretty encouraging. I am definitely keeping a positive attitude about this process, mostly. And I am actually one of those people who would RATHER be at an SLAC than an R1 anyways...
I think 3:52 raises a very important point about our tendency to reinforce hierarchies of job opportunities. Whether for financial or other reasons, there are good reasons to seek employment outside of the academy.
Thanks, guys. You all gave me a super duper warm fuzzy feeling tonight.
There is really no point to worry too much about the hierarchies of the job market. We are all bounded by this social structure and what we can do at this point is simply to pick the schools that fit you and to prepare an application as strong as you can. Let the SC members worry about those "Top 5" "Top 10" questions. Wouldn't life be easier that way?
I'm at a "top 69" program, and I was wondering...do you think it matters if I send my cover letters on regular paper, or should I use the more rigorous card stock? I know, if I was at a "top 3" program I could get away with the regular paper, but considering where I'm coming from, maybe some nice paper will help doll up my applications and make me look more attractive?
I sat on SCs for 2 years of searches that generated 4 hires at a top-30 R1. There were always over 300 apps for each position. Publications reigned supreme in making the short list--there were always at least 30 applicants with significant sole-authored articles.
School rank mattered a little-- top 5 schools do elicit a "oooo, fancy" reaction when I see the letterhead-- but my general impression after 2 years was that a lot of top programs need to start mentoring their grad students better. They quite often were not the best candidates in the stack by far. Of course, when they were good, they won the SC's attention hands down.
The emphasis on pubs- in- hand meant we bypassed quite a few applicants with great promise. It is shocking how many of today's "rock stars" spent 2-3 years on the market in the 90's.
I agree with the post above that says good job talks are highly rated. Perhaps overrated.
It was all very intimidating, since I was a pub-less grad student at the time. There are so many good candidates out there.
Thanks to everyone who has posted their insights here! Is the emphasis on publications above all else only true for research-focused jobs? What about SLACs? Does the amount of teaching experience a candidate has matter? I have not taught in grad school and will not have the chance to before I am on the market. Is there anything I can do to be competitive for teaching jobs?
Just to clarify, @5:30 was making fun of what I wrote (that's the generous read). Never ceases to amaze me what people will write under the cover of anonymity. But hey, thanks for the reminder; just because it's sociology doesn't mean people won't write crass things in blog comments (or, for that matter, be crass and insensitive face to face).
I am the co-vice president of the university water polo club...should that go in my cover letter? I was thinking that it probably wouldn't matter for R1 programs, but what about SLACs? They might like to see my service record, right?
I'd put your water polo club presidency on there, probably at the end under "university service." The fact that I play in a university ochestra is on my CV and I've found in interviews that people often ask about it out of curiosity and it serves as a great way to either break the ice or talk about something other than sociology. Plus, it makes you seem well roudned.
We want to know if you can teach, and we want some kind of evidence to consider your app. If you don't have much experience, show us that you can do it. A good CV helps alot.
We don't want to hold your hand for 3 years while you learn on the job. In your cover letter, make your case; be persuasive.
Oh ok, thanks. I'm also the secretary of the university shuffleboard club. Should I put that on my CV too? Or maybe it would be more effective in the cover letter?
You know, we're really lucky to have a forum to ask questions and get friendly answers--many other disciplines just don't have such a place. Making smart-alecky comments and then mocking the people who take them at face value and offer help is really, really lame.
This is a really great forum. If you have nothing positive to contribute, don't clutter the boards with unkind posts. There are plenty of other forums in which you can throw anonymous barbs at total strangers - here it is just annoying.
5:52- Last year I was on the SC of a SLAC...we brought someone in for a job talk because of their previous participation in the school choir. So, my advice is to definitely put that shuffleboard club in your cover letter. Good luck!
Anybody know what the deal is with schools that interviewed at ASA but don't have a position ad in the job bank and/or didn't list application specifics in their employment service ad? This seems to be the case for almost all of the schools I was interested in (especially for ones I didn't actually meet with). I'm assuming we just need to wait for a formal announcement, but I'm wondering if many schools interview at ASA but then don't end up with an opening?
12:57- why not email the person who interviewed you, thank them for the interview at ASA, and ask when they will be posting their job ad since you are so eager to apply to it? That way you get the info you need, and show the schools that you are still interested in the position (and maybe your name will stick out in their minds when you apply).
I think 12:57 was asking about some postings that he/she did NOT get to interview with. But either way, there is nothing wrong with emailing the contact person to ask when the posting will go up.
As one who held a couple of visiting appointments before finally getting on the tenure track at an R1 (which is hiring again this year, btw), I totally understand how upsetting striking out on the market can be. At the time, my advisor told me to not get too down, that it will work out. I found it very hard advice to follow, but it's true, so I pass it along anyway. If you don't get a job this year, don't get too down. It will work out. Hang in there.
just curious about how many people are on the market for the 1st year? 2nd? this is my 3rd year on the market so i am really hoping that the 3rd time will be the charm.
I'm on the market for the second year, although last year I didn't make much of an effort once it became clear I was not ready. I'm hoping things go well this time as I do not have the luxury of moving more than once due to family constraints.
I'm on the market for the first year, but am not 'fully' on the market- I'm so far applying to only 6 jobs, 4 of which are specifically looking for people in my subfield, and 2 are open positions in areas I would really like to live in. I have another year of funding after this year for my grad program, so if I don't get a job (and I don't expect to), I will treat that year like a post doc where I don't have to move and get paid less than a postdoc. :) Then next year in the fall I can go fully on the job market, and will try to turn some dissertation chapters into articles that I can send out.
Does anyone know if Hawaii is still hiring? Their ad is not on ASA anymore but is on the wiki (not sure how often this is updated). I assume funding fell through.
Any advice about how/whether one can spot a posting where "the fix is in"--i.e., they already have someone in mind for the position, esp. a visiting prof? I tend to suspect that whenever the description of the desired research area is very involved.
good question 5:25. It is always helpful to know when this is the case. on another note, what happened to Tufts? I saw an email about it but the Tufts HR page lists nothing. ?
@ 8/30 5:25 That's a great question. I don't know how one can find that information out, other than sniffing around and asking friends... I suppose the tea leaves of the job listing (i.e., the areas of expertise listed) give the most obvious indication.
No idea about the reasons for the NC State thing... I found out about it from Human Resources when I called them about some issues I was having with the online application system.
9:48 -- Sorry to hear about the NCSU job, as I was hoping to apply for it. Was it ever posted? I thought I was obsessively checking for it, but never came across it (except on the jobs wiki listing). For future reference, can you let me know where you saw it? Thanks!
I talked with someone in the department at NCSU today and they said the opening there would be back up on the employment website soon - possibly by next week...
re: NCSU-I had heard that all faculty positions in the entire College of Humanities and Social Sciences were cancelled due to a rather large budget deficit.
1:25, I think I speak for everyone when I say "You have nothing to worry about". Send all four. Send your best one or one that fits best for that particular job description. Shake it up a bit and send three out of the four.
I do realize you have sort of a legitimate question. Nobody felt like it really was an important question when the high school quarterback wondered if he should wear eye-black is all.
Uhmmm...no offense. You might be interviewing me some day.
Re 1:25, my approach is to send the exact number of samples they ask for, because as 6:49 mentioned, you don't want it to look like you ignored their instructions. I would suggest picking the piece that makes you look like the best fit for the job ad and then be clear in your letter that you would be abundantly willing to send along other manuscripts on request. They'll see you have lots of pubs on your CV, nothing good will come from overwhelming them with stuff they specifically asked you not to send
Does anyone have an opinion on whether, when the ad asks for contact info for references (as opposed to letters) you should send letters anyway? This is currently being debated among people on the market in my dept. with mixed thoughts.
@12:10 Having spoken to a faculty member at a school with this in their ad, they DID NOT want letters, but would ask for letters from candidates they screened based on the CV and cover letter.
Contrary to concerns about the Calif State system, Cal State Los Angeles is hiring (in Social Inequality), along with several other CSU campuses.
The California budget crunch will not necessarily affect faculty hiring, as the CSU system (like UC) has some financial autonomy, and student enrollments are surging. Job notices are being posted.
The CA budget crunch has already affected hiring, leading to cancellation of some searches in progress, and postponement of others, in all three levels of CA public higher education. This doesn't mean that there won't be any searches, or that all current searches will be cancelled, but the UC, CSU, and CC systems are all impacted.
Sorry if this has been covered earlier... Regarding the specialization areas posted by schools, how well matched do candidates need to be to the desired specialty areas? When the requested areas aren't an exact match it can be difficult to decide whether to apply or whether to assume that I will be out of the running based solely on this criteria. I'm looking at theory positions primarily, and it seems to be a (relatively) good year this year, so I'm a bit hesitant about applying for positions where the speciality areas are more of a reach. Thanks
My advice is to apply for any positions you are interested in that could even possibly be a good match. Let the SC decide whether or not you fit their specialization area. The only way to guarentee that you aren't considered is to not apply.
If you think it is a bit of a reach to see how your background fits with a particular posting, explain in your cover letter how you fit.
Is anyone else surprised by the variation in posted salaries? Within Kentucky alone you have one school posting a salary range between 40-49K and another 80-89K. Am I naive, or is it crazy that there is a 100% difference in potential salaries for starting positions?
475 comments:
1 – 200 of 475 Newer› Newest»good luck to all!
-karl
i will get the blog started with a question about the ASA job service, for anyone who is already reading...
i recently heard that most research universities schedule ASA interviews outside of the actual employment service and that a candidate should contact departments directly to set up these meetings. i was told that most schools who use the official employment service are doing so in order to drum up interest in their departments more than to actually interview candidates.
does anyone know if this is true? if you have done ASA interviews, either through the service or outside of it, was it valuable?
re: the ASA employment service, I did both the employment service and interviews scheduled in other ways. I recommend to my students and to others that you have a faculty member set up the outside interviews. Most schools are going to take it more seriously if the request comes from a faculty advisor. But direct contact is okay.
I still, however, think that one should do the employment service. I had something like 15 interviews at the employment service and only one led to a formal interview. But others could have if I had been interested in other types of jobs, or if I hadn't flubbed the conversation. My experience was that I totally screwed up my description of my dissertation and research interests the first maybe 10 times that I met with people, and I was really glad that at least some of those were at the employment service rather than in the half hour coffee meeting with the dept chair who thought the silk shirt with the top buttons open and the gold medallion hanging down was a sexy look. Hard to concentrate when faced with that, but I held my own after having done a bunch of employment service interviews.
6:46 -
thanks! i can tell i need to spend some time hanging out at the disco to fully prepare myself for this...
I did the employment service (I didn't arrange any back-channel ASA interviews), and I got a job with a SLAC that I met with. Later, they said that they took the employment seriously.
My advice, do the employment service but schedule your interviews carefully (lump them together over one or two days). It's good practice, and for smaller schools it can mean something. But if you are a heavy-hitter and looking for ranked R1's, I wouldn't bother -- unless you are doing it for practice.
-Karl
ack
"they took the employment _service_ seriously"
How far in advance of the meetings do employers typically schedule the employment service mini-interviews?
It's all done online... and they roll out one-by-one over the summer (until a few weeks before the meetings). I'm not sure when they start, check the ASA job bank site. All of the scheduling is done online (sort of like automated speed-dating).
-karl
My program doesn't do a great job with job search mentoring, so can I ask that people be explicit about what they mean by "outside interviews" (ie not employment service) at ASA? Are these semi-formal meet and greets? Do all schools that are hiring do these? Does this only happen if you have a tight/close connection with the chair of the search committee (like your advisor is a friend)? If you advisor won't do this for you, should you contact search chairs with an email saying you'll be at ASA and want to meet?
Thanks in advance for thoughts on this.
-c.r.
Unless your personality is a serious liability, the employment service can't hurt you. It can, however, be quite draining and inconvenient if you have appointments scattered across all four days. I'd advise limiting your availability to one day.
It does consist (primarily) of lower-tier schools who are trying to drum up applications so they are not like real interviews. Nonetheless, it's good practice, and if you make a connection with someone it could become a tie-breaker for a search committee.
--Brandt
the outside interviews (not employment service) are set up in a variety of ways. some schools solicit the "best" candidates from the top programs through their networks (professional acquaintances, not necessarily close friends). others will meet with people who send unsolicited emails. most schools do some sort of vetting, so if you email you should include a CV so that they can evaluate whether you would be a good fit for their position.
in general, these interviews are set up through networks, so any network that you have you should use. at my school, for example, the director of graduate studies puts a list of all students on the market in the mailbox of all faculty members and encourages them to mention these students to colleagues in search of applicants. the students also are encouraged to put some of their job market information in the mailboxes of key faculty members (who have similar research areas and would therefore get inquiries from faculty looking for people in those areas).
I remember doing the employment service and running back to my hotel room to do a quick internet search of the faculty at the next school I was interviewing with...
Glad I don't have to do that again...
Well, to be honest, the my place that hired me is going to be hiring again this year (I think)... so I'll probably still have to fill a chair at the table a few times so that a senior colleague can get lunch...
-steph
I did one informal interview at ASA last year. I was contacted out of the blue by someone on the search committee and am fairly sure they got my name off the department website.
It was a good experience. I really enjoyed meeting the 3 people who interviewed me and was really excited about the job, although I never would have thought to look there before they interviewed me. As it turned out, I did apply there and did not even make the first cut.
But I now know that if there is a job I think I might be interested in, these informal interviews are a good way to find out more. I plan to ask my adviser to make calls on my behalf this time around and set some of these up.
Does anyone think the academic job market will be pretty tough in FY 08-09 b/c of the collapsing economy.
For instance, the local school budget in a local New England town where I live is at the point of shutting down after school sports.
Obviously, many of the public universities that we will be applying to will also be dealing with governor's who want to cut their budgets.
Sociology positions are not always a priority for many deans and administrators.
What do you all think?
It probably takes a while for a bad economy to affect the demand for jobs (though we may see a spike in grad school applications right away). However, i think it will affect supply immediately--for example, my department *was* slated to hire in two areas this coming year, but we're now going to have to fight for those, and likely will only get one.
--Maude
My department isn't hiring anyone next year due to financial constraints. This isn't so unusual (they don't hire every year) but since there is a real need for people, and we recently lost people, it is a little stark.
Deans allot new faculty positions to a large extent based on student major enrollment trends, because departmental "need" is usually defined in practical not intellectual terms. Sociology is doing well as a major and as a source of general education enrollment. Make yourself seem to be a valuable future colleague by being able to connect your specialization with that department's courses and with student careers.
If you like to be thoroughly prepared for a visit, you can even estimate the department's future retirement patterns by looking at faculty ages. If you see that the two main theory instructors are in their late 60s, let it be known that you enjoy teaching theory.
This is hardly a "boom" period for sociology hiring but with crafty planning and widespread applications you can get a good position.
Seems like there are few positions thus far. When do the announcements usually come out? Does the ASA service list the institutions participating beforehand?
There are a few early announcements in June in the regular ASA job bank, but most come out in July and August. Keep close watch, as the deadlines are getting earlier and earlier!
Get your apps in ASAP for posts that come up early - just because they give a deadline doesn't mean they won't start looking at files as soon as they're complete and setting up interviews. Factor in the time it'll take for your packet to get there and be opened and sorted. Of course, this doesn't mean they actually get moving by their deadline either...
New study on the Sociology job market:
“Too Many or Too Few PhDs? Employment Opportunities in Academic Sociology”
http://www.asanet.org/galleries/default-file/PhDs%20Employment%20Brief%20(FINAL).pdf
Enjoy,
Karl
Seems like every few years there is a study like this to justify the continuing production of PhDs. The problem with this is that it doesn't consider whether jobs are at all desirable. Beyond the question of prestige, if you look at many of the postings in the job bank, they are for schools with high teaching loads and low salaries. And often in parts of the country where it might be hard for a candidate's partner to find a job, academic or not. So, right away, probably a third of the jobs listed are not going to work for most applicants.
DON'T CONTACT DEPARTMENTS DIRECTLY to ask to meet informally at ASA! This is a huge no no. Any and all contact should first be through your advisor. ASA is not a job fair (as it is for econ.), and so the informal meetings are not interviews. The job market does not really kick off till fall, and at this early stage you should NOT contact schools for meetings unless your advisor has given the green light. Trust me, etiquette matters a lot in this process.
I have to agree; I'm sure it wouldn't doom you but we would not look kindly on such a request if it came out of the blue. If you really want to meet with a place; ask your advisor to find someone in the dept. to talk to.
I'm at a top ten department and I was on the market this past year (and got a job, don't ask why I'm here). My committee members were, supposedly, talking me up, but I directly contacted department chairs and search committee chairs who were at schools that had job postings by August but that weren't doing the ASA employment service. These tend to be the higher ranked departments. That's how students in my department usually do it (sometimes, our committee members get emails fishing for strong students, too).
I got turned down by Univ of MI and UC-Berkeley (berkeley told me that they don't meet with anyone), but I had at least 4-6 very good informal meetings. (I did this the previous year with a few schools too but then didn't go on the market). This year, I got one interview at a school I met with informally (and I probably would've gotten a job offer there but I had to take a different offer sooner). I found out later that I was very close runner up for 2 other schools that I met with informally.
All of this is to say that I guess I never ran into this etiquette problem that others mentioned, at least not as far as I could tell. And I like to think that I'm pretty observant about such things.
This discussion of networking makes me wonder, what should you do if your committee members aren't going to talk you up? I finished in 2007 (1 top 10 department) and have been in a postdoc for a year and have another postdoc lined up for next year. I've been productive, publishing several articles and getting started on a book, so my CV is a lot stronger this time around (2nd time on the market). But here's the thing. Two of my committee members are no longer at the university where I got my PhD. The 3rd is there, but rarely responds to emails. They always write the recommendations, and I'm told the content is good. But they are not very responsive to emails, and I am pretty sure that they have never talked me up. I can't even get feedback on a draft cover letter! At this point, I feel like I've done as much as I can to make myself competitive, but I'm concerned I'll slip through the cracks and not get interviews because no one's heard of me. For various reasons, I can't be at ASA this year, though will be at some other conferences in the fall. So what should my strategy be? Make myself even more of a pest than I was during the dissertation writing process (which had mixed results), and bombard them with draft cover letters and research statements in the hope that this reminds them I exist? Hope that my CV speaks for itself and that networking doesn't really make that much difference in the end? Try to market myself at the other conferences I'll be attending?
clearly there are multiple ways to look at this... for sake of conversation, i personally would welcome a potential colleague who is taking the initiative to find a good match for her/himself, and acting as a confident independent scholar. but then... i loathe the paternalistic nonsense that pervades academia, and this would also depend on style and substance. aggressive self promotion can be a turn off, for sure, but a thoughtful and well-substantiated approach would be welcome in my book.
RE: June 19, 7:11
Don't over-analyze your situation with your advisors. It's easy to feel slighted when the reality may be that they're just busy with other things. Don't react to feeling slighted by being a "pest.. and bombard them with draft cover letters and research statements." Save the "pest" routine for when you get notice that their letter did not arrive.
In terms of faculty no longer being at your former institution, is this because they moved on to bigger or better things or for other reasons? Generally their moving on shouldn't be a problem for your applications or networking.
Here's some concrete advice: (1) Add new folks to your mentor list. Someone at your current post-doc, for example, should be able to speak to your current productivity, etc. Make sure you have some balance in your list of mentors -- folks who can speak to different aspects of your work (and personality). (2) Get editing help from OTHERS for your cover letter. Collect examples of "good" and "bad" cover letters (and other application materials). I still have a folder I started in grad school when my program held "how-to" job market sessions. (3) Treat your former faculty with more respect and act more self-sufficent. It's not their job to edit your letters or research statement. (I'd expect that approach would turn them off.) Don't grovel, but do remember to thank them for all the help they've provided you. These are relationships that you may need to keep cultivating over the years. (4) Because faculty do move on, keep your reference list contact information as current as you can. It can be helpful to include a dept office telephone number along with the direct line number.
Good luck.
In response to 7:11, I have served on several search committees at my institution (RI) for various positions. Although an n of 1, perhaps this will be useful. Concerning applicants, the first thing I have always looked at is the CV. If the CV is not competitive in terms of especially publications, presentations and perhaps grant activity, frankly the cover letter and letters of recommendation get little attention. (Competitiveness clearly varies by a) institution and b) area.) For those applicants that are competitive, I spend much more time examining the cover letter. (For those applicants that do not bother with letters with information about research interests, current research, future research plans, teaching background and/or interests, BIG mistake. Also a big mistake: poorly written letters.) After that, I consider the letters of recommendation. Usually they are glowing so the ones that are not actually receive even more attention. It is not unusual for all letters not to be in the file on time, although I have heard of institutions that do not allow consideration of files until they are complete. If I or others in the department know the letter writers or others in the program from which the applicant graduated/expects to graduate, some phone calls may be placed. Ultimately, though, the strength of the applicant's CV is key determining factor in whether the other items in the file matter.
question:
is it good, bad, or neither to have one of your letters written by a non-sociology PhD?
i am doing a post-doc at an academic research institute and the person i have worked the most closely with is an endowed chair professor in policy. s/he is very well-known in that field, but i have heard that it is bad to have any letters from non-sociology people.
my options are to either have this person write me a very strong letter referencing our frequent collaborations and multiple papers together, or get a letter from someone on my dissertation committee who is a sociologist but has had little interaction with me outside of giving feedback on a couple drafts of dissertation chapters. i know the dissertation committee person would write a good letter, but it would likely not be as rich as the non-sociologist i work with more often.
thoughts?
I'm finding the wait for departments to list positions unbearable. Has anyone ever contaced departments to see if they will be hiring, prior to any listings being listed? Is that too taboo? There are a handful of departments that I'd like to contact to see if they'll be hiring this year.
My two pieces of advice (it's my second time around):
1. Don't Do It! They'll post when they post. They may or may not know by now, depending on how soon things happen at their department, or they may still be figuring out hiring priorities.
2. Figure out a way to calm down now. Sorry, there should be a gentler way to say that, but last year postings were going up well after the ASAs, and good jobs were still posted (or reposted) in the new year, after a round of interviews came up empty or a current asst. professor took a job somewhere else and left a hole or a late-starting department finally got approval. Postings gradually transitioned over to visiting professorships and postdocs well into the spring.
I know I am not the only one that found it way too easy to get obsessed with checking job boards and this place instead of doing real work. If you can at all, find ways to segment the job market from the rest of your life and limit its place.
Oh, final thing: If you really do want to try to figure out if a program's hiring, try the following things first, in decreasing order of reasonableness: ask people you know who might know someone there. check out their faculty list to see if it looks like they recently hired (this will mean more for small places, of course). see if they already have person/people who are in your area (maybe it won't matter even if they are hiring). see if it looks like people are going to retire/did retire last year. search their institution's website to see if maybe there's some mention of some approval process in a public document.
Re: the June 20, 8:17 posting. If the person with whom you are working most closely is well known in policy, having a letter from him/her should be an asset, especially if that is something that you are presumably interested in your work. I would, however, try to have the other letters from sociologists in case there are any concerns about this issue among search committee members.
Thanks 8:33; I need that...
I edited the previous post to remove the line that identified the author by their "blog name". If the community would like me to not edit for anonymity, just let me know. The comment was:
Inside Higher Ed discussion of the ASA Jobs Report posted by XXXXXXX on 6/17.
Obviously I need to shoehorn incarceration or deviance into my diss. somehow
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/06/23/socjobs
hs, no, that's a good idea, thanks. it's easy to forget to click the 'anonymous' button.
Yes, thanks for the deletion. I'm the person who made the post in question.
Thing is, I'm pretty sure I selected "Anonymous" and checked to be sure that my name wasn't listed after it was posted. Was that the issue, or was the problem that I identified the person who posted the original article by the name with which s/he signed his/her post? I see that this information is X'ed out in the re-post.
Just want to clarify the blog's standards for future reference. Thanks!
Thoughts on going to the ASA job service interviews if you are probably not going on the job market this year?
I am newly ABD, and have received conflicting advise from committee members. One thinks I should try to write a chapter or two in the next 2-3 months and go on the job market this year, or at least go on it 'light' and apply to a few jobs.
The other (my chair) thinks I am not ready to go on the job market yet, and that I should try to finish as much of my dissertation as possible this year, finish up some other projects and try to get them published this year, and go on the job market next year. I tend to agree with the second one- that I am not ready.
This second adviser has also advised that I go to the ASA job service as 'practice' for interviewing next year. I feel like I am not even ready to go on the job market 'light' and it's kinda weird to take up people's time with interviews when there's little to no chance that I will be applying to those jobs, and that I can use next year's ASA to practice for job talks, right before I actually go on the job market.
Thoughts?
gee, i think you are kind of answering your own questions, really. if you don't feel you are ready, you aren't! i also agree that it is a waste of time to interview when your dissertation is not yet well-developed (also a waste of time for interviewers and those who are really looking for jobs). you won't have much to talk about and risk giving a less-than stellar impression. it can be a small world.
I agree that it is a waste of time to go on the job market unless you are really ready. I went on the market as a new ABD with only 1 publication in a small journal. Out of 40 applications, I got 40 rejection letters.
It is a waste of time and energy - which could be better spent finishing the dissertation and getting something in print before you try and sell yourself.
so, I don't feel ready to go on the market this year, but my advisor thinks that I am, and wants/expects me to.
How do I have the conversation with him that I want another year?
12:12, do you have another year of funding? If so, then this conversation with your advisor will be much easier. I would recommend mapping out the two years one quarter/semester at a time -- demonstrate what you plan to get finished and when, and why a year is not practical for your plan, or for the kind of job you desire.
If you don't have another year of funding left from your department, then I would go along with your advisor and get on the market.
Good advice on setting a meeting and having your next year to 2 years planned out.
Stick to your guns, this is your career after all, Nothing could be worse for you than to actually apply for a job that you like this year, get that job and not be finished with your dissertation...
Article on employment opportunities for soc phds
Just saw this, it came out this month. According to this article, In 2006 (most recent year of data) there were 610 ASA job listings for assistant professors, and 562 phd's awarded. Of course this doesn't include people coming off postdocs, assistant profs back in the job market, etc, and all these jobs are not at R1's, but it's a bit encouraging :)
Just curious out there -- what is the rate of post-candidacy attrition in other departments? At my R1, I would say 50% of ABDs do not go on to finish the Ph.D. We send a lot of people to non-academic jobs. Is this typical?
I'm at a R1 and about 80% go into academia.
I'm at an R1 and based on my non-scientific observations over the past 6 years, I would say we have a very low ABD attrition rate.
I'd estimate that maybe 25% of people who start do not complete the PhD, but most leave after the MA with a smaller bunch leaving after comps but before the proposal. I can't think of anyone who left ABD as long as I have been here.
Very few people from my department end up in non-academic positions - maybe 1 a year.
in my R1 program, I only know of 1 person in the past four years who officially dropped out after being ABD. Then we have at least 3-5 people who have been ABD for a very long time and are officially still enrolled, but might not ever finish. Many have moved far away, supposedly working on their dissertation while working full time. However, many drop out before reaching ABD status; my cohort started with 8 and now has 5.
In recent memory, most people go on to academic jobs, probably around 85%. The rest go on to postdocs or industry jobs.
wiki vandal is at it again this year.
I suggest we move to a different wiki host sooner rather than later.
Please check out the new jobs wiki (top of the links list) and let me know if there are any problems. Thank you.
are there any assistant profs on the board? i am pessimistic about the job market and about a career in soc. as far as i can tell, job satisfaction seems abysmally low prior to tenure, and i have heard of fewer and fewer benefits to working in academia versus private industry or academic administration. so, to anyone out there who is tt, are you any happier than you were in grad school? what aspects of your job to you enjoy? finally, many people note that academics have good job flexibility. do you find this to be the case? what exactly is meant by flexibility? work from home, choose your hours, etc. many, many thanks.
9:12,
Before you apply for ANY job, you might want to work on your fear of capital letters.
Ignore '9:24 AM'
I haven't started my new job yet, but it is really nice to be done with grad school. Moving into a real office (you know, with a phone and a window) can do wonders for your outlook on life.
There was a discussion on the CHE forums under "Tenure Track" about the perqs of academic life. It might help you get out of your funk.
-Karl
I'm starting my second year on the TT, and I'm loving life (seriously). I pick up my kids from school 2 days per week at 3pm, and don't work in the evenings except when grading. I try only to work Sat. mornings and not the rest of the weekend. Settling into teaching was the most challenging thing for me, but now that my preps are done for a while I think this year will be even better. I can leave work anytime I want for kid things. I am blessed with great colleagues, which makes a big difference, too. I am not at a superstar place, but a good place, with reasonable tenure standards. I took all of that into account when choosing a job. Hope this helps.
I have now had tenure for a few years. The post-tenure life is much better than pre-tenure life. The stresses are different in many ways in an academic job than in graduate school, and there are a lot more of them, especially in the first year or so (new preps, getting research projects under way, navigating the school and the department, service commitments, finding the grocery store, etc. etc.). The pre-tenure pressure can also be very difficult, although I am at a place where tenure standards are uncertain and always rising, few colleagues who get along, and (at the time) few protections for junior people as far as new preps, service, etc. (these are a few things to ask about when interviewing, for sure). However, despite the stresses, I always had flexibility with my time and schedule, something that friends who went into the 'real' world do not. Being able to work on that which interests you, rather than what you are told to work on, is also a great benefit to working in academia. While I was not always sure pre-tenure if academia was the right way to go, I can say now that I am very glad I did.
Thanks for the supportive comments. I feel much more optimistic after hearing a few 'success stories'.
I'll post another one. I am a couple years past tenure, having spent 4 years at a lower-ranked R1 school and 4 years at a higher-ranked place. Being a tenure-track prof, in my opinion, is the kind of job that most people working regular jobs couldn’t imagine. A few years into the tenure clock, my wife and I had a child with very significant medical needs (as well as two other children along the way). We often talk about just how we could have managed if I didn’t have a job with the exceptional flexibility mine has. When I don't have family obligations, I am usually in the office from about 9:30-3:30 each day, and usually work for a bit after the kids go to bed, and I am perceived in my department as someone who is around all the time. Throw in that I spend those working hours largely focusing on what I choose, it’s a hard gig to beat. I highly recommend it if you can get it.
If people don't mind sharing, I'd like to get a sense of the types of jobs that one should realistically consider given different publishing and teaching backgrounds. I'm not on the market this year, but I am having a hard time figuring out whether I will be a better candidate next year for an R1, R2, or what.
2:05
I tried to have this conversation with my advisor once. He squashed it by saying I should just apply to anything that might fit and let the schools themselves figure out where I belonged. Sound advice that I ignored, because you have to obsess about something when you're gearing up for the market.
Anyway, one word of advice: keep in mind not just what you might need to get a job at a given location, but what you'll need to get tenure there too. Look at the websites of the type of schools you are interested in, and see how much their faculty are publishing, and where.
I don't know if this is the right place to post this:
I'm negotiating a post-doc deal at an R1 in a big city. What should I ask for? What kind of salary, benefits? Other things that may not occur to me? What split of time for my work/the project's work should I ask for or expect?
Thanks.
Is it just me (and my specialties) or is the job pool pretty shallow this year? I remember feeling more enthused at this time last year...
It's not just you; I was thinking the same thing. By this time last year, I had a list of 20 places that appealed to me. Right now I have maybe five.
I'm having the same experience, but I'm not sure how much of that is because I didn't get a job last year.
In my area there are almost as many jobs this year as there were last year at this date. It does seem like there were more top liberal arts schools and higher-ranked research departments to get excited about, though. But, again, I may just not be as excitable.
My impression is that the job listings are highly stratified this year - we see several elite schools and a large number of lower tier schools and SLACs, but not many middle-ranking R1s (say, ranking 20-60). Now I have about 12-13 on my list, but most of them are open area positions and only 2 are really in my specialties. (And as a qualitative person I find the posts requiring strong quantitative skills particularly obnoxious...) I'm hoping more listings will come after the ASA.
It's still quite early! Many job ads don't appear until September.
On the job pool, the recession is biting into budgets, until it gets better it is likely that pools will be smaller. Naturally, this affects state university systems and financially weaker private institutions first.
What's up with the jobs for DC/Maryland area for Fall 2008.
Should I start to worry if I see none listed by now (mid July 2008).
If I move out of the area the current bread winner will need to go hunting too!!!
AMEND
What's up with the jobs for DC/Maryland area for FALL 2009.***
Should I start to worry if I see none listed by now (mid July 2008).
If I move out of the area the current bread winner will need to go hunting too!!!
need job- I thought I saw UMD posted an open rank position...
I saw this info on some earlier version of the soc job market rumor mill but now I can't find it...I have a professional website, and would like to add some kind of tracker thing that will tell me where visitors are coming from, so I can see if people from schools I am applying to are checking out my page/CV/etc. Any suggestions for a program that will do that?
statcounter
-karl
An ip tracker? Seems like something that will just create more anxiety. OMG, someone at Michigan (probably another grad student) just looked at my webpage!
I've been tracking my page for 3 weeks now. It makes me feel better to know I'm not the only grad student out there who looks at other students' CVs. Quite a few of y'all have visited me in the run-up to ASA.
StatCounter is the easiest to use.
I just installed StatCounter for my homepage and it looks really fun! It is always good to know where your visitors come from, no matter for job search or not. Thanks 3:48!
ooh someone from a school I want an interview with at ASA checked out my website!
Now if only they would actually schedule an interview.... :)
See this thread on scatterplot:
http://scatter.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/ask-a-scatterbrain-asa-employment-service/
Along the lines of making contacts, I'd like to add that I have found it very helpful to attend some smaller conferences in your specialty area. At ASA, it is hard to make good new contacts because people are just so busy and have already made plans. You might have a nice chat after a presentation, but that it about it.
At a smaller conference, you are likely to meet people who share your interests and who have the time to talk about it with you. There also seem to be more faculty and fewer grad students at such conferences, which is nice if you are on the market and looking at make contacts. I recently attended a conference at which I ended up having dinner every night with 2-3 people I had just met and developed a couple of really promising job leads as well as future collaborations.
My advice is to look beyond just ASA when exploring conference networking opportunities.
What's up with the University of California schools? Very few of them have ads posted so far in the job bank. Last year they all had deadlines around September 10. Does anyone know if Irvine, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, UCLA, etc. are going to be hiring?
Re: 9:40 The UC system is dealing with state budget cuts. There are currently rumors of hiring freezes as well as pay cuts for existing employees within the system so there may not be any positions available this year.
What about the University of North Carolina schools? Any info on whether any of them will be hiring this year?
UCLA and UC Davis have positions listed in the ASA Job Bank.
Most of the UNC schools hired last year and I have not heard any plans to hire this year from Wilmington or CH. NC State haired a couple positions last year. Someone recently told me Duke may be planning to post a position soon but that is not confirmed.
I'm growing more and more convinced that we are in for a big drop-off in available positions this year. One indication: last year's ASA employment service listed 126 positions, this year's has 74. And once one starts crossing off the less desirable jobs it begins to look particularly dire. I'm especially bummed because I would like to do a post-doc, but now I fear that those positions are going to be allotted based on intense competition among the folks who ordinarily would have been candidates for the top TT jobs that aren't out there this year.
The party line seems to be that it's too early to get concerned, but I wonder how much longer that line of reasoning will hold water.
UNC Charlotte just posted a job
How about a quick survey of those participating in the ASA employment / speed dating service?
I have expressed interest with eight places, and have three appointments.
Anyone else want to share?
13 expressed, 5 invited
the uc schools will not be hiring unless they had positions that were budgeted last year and not filled (there may be exceptions to this but they will be few and far between). the hiring freeze, at least at my school, is fact, not rumor. they all will take a 10% cut this year -- i've heard the cal state system will also be taking a big hit.
Re: 10:26
I don't see where the UNC Charlotte job is posted...where did you find it listed?
I expressed interest in 5, heard back from 2 of those, heard from 2 others I did not initially contact -- so 4 total.
Expressed interest in 8, heard back from 4. Received 6 unsolicited invites (no interest notification sent). Turned down one of them. Total of 9 interviews. Sorry, that was confusing.
5:06
When you say UCLA advertised a job you mean the dean of social sciences job or a job that most of us in this blog could apply for (Assistant professor?). I only saw the dean job advertised
10:04: The employment service is up to 84 jobs now. So, we're still down 42 jobs from last year (about 33%).
Two schools of thought:
A lot of folks in my department bad-mouth the ASA employment service and have said that more and more schools are opting out of it. So, maybe decreased numbers signal that.
Alternatively, maybe the economy really is cutting down on the number of institutions hiring. If so, I wonder how much that will offset the gains made by baby boomers retiring (the story we've all been told for years).
Bottom line, I'm not going to worry about it. Do the best you can and what happens, happens.
The UNC-Charlotte job is posted through the ASA Employment Service.
I sent out 10 requests and received 5 interviews and 0 unsolicited requests for interviews.
7 requests, 4 interviews, plus one interview outside the employment service.
If anyone who follows this blog met with folks from Northeastern at ASA, would you be willing to share any info you learned? I'm happy to do the same regarding the places I met with: St. Edwards and Angelo State.
I met with Northeastern and the two faculty were lovely, and represented the school and department well. They took a surprisingly long time to get to know me, and describe the dept. (And I know that I'm not the only one who they did that with, as well.) It was so much more civilized than the Employment Service. They definitely increased their stock in my mind.
If people are curious about how many others interviewed with various schools at ASA, perhaps we could add a category to the sociology job wiki (http://socjobs2009.wikidot.com/). For example, put a "x(asa)" next to the school's name if you met with them.
Hi all
Tenured prof here who took part at the ASA job search as an interviewer. We are a very competitive liberal arts college, and we take the ASA employment service seriously. We use it primarily to screen people for their interest in us, demeanor, fit with our needs and whether they are "normal." Not much one can tell from 20 minutes, but it is a start. It gives us one more piece of info and pathway, along with relying on our personal networks to solicit candidates. (That can be trickier than one might think. We have different networks, and it is difficult to turn away the students of friends we have at major R1s. There is less political fallout going this route.)
If you talked to a school at ASA you are seriously intersted in, a brief email note thanking them for their time would be helpful.
Thanks for the Northeastern info! I appreciate it.
And to follow up on the prior post, as a candidate I also found the employment service to be very helpful.
I also participated in the ASA employment service, and I did find it a helpful experience.
Most graduate students I spoke with during ASA were friendly. However, I was completely taken aback by how many people in the Employment Service area were throwing nasty glances around, sizing up the competition. And the stampede to the interview tables! Geez!
Maybe it's just me, but I think everyone would do well to take a deep breath and chill out a bit. The competitive spirit doesn't reflect well on our discipline, IMHO.
Maybe what you perceived as mean stares were actually people who were nervous or trying to mentally prepare? I didn't pick up on any bad vibes at all, and I spend a lot of time in those chairs by the bell!
I think the mad rush to the tables was simply an effort to give each school their full 20 minutes.
Re: thank-you notes
Stupid question, but is an email thank you ok for employment service interviews?
Ok. I'll just preface by saying that I thought I had a successful run at the ASA. However, I'm going to breathe a little fire here. This comment--on potential employers analyzing the nonverbal cues (e.g., 'nasty glances') of job candidates who are participating in such an overdetermined, stressful, and ultimately ineffective process (again, there are *so* few jobs that arise out of this speed dating)--is just evidence of how silly the Employment Service is. And advice like 'chill out' is pretty weak tea. I say scrap the whole thing. Treat people like meat, and you'll get a few bad looks, and awkward conversations.
(Why, for example, does there have to be a bell? Why not just offer a room where schools decide how much time they want to spend with someone? Why keep people nervously in a holding pen? It is as if, as a discipline, we've never heard of rationalization and bureaucratization... let alone the Presentation of Self.)
Get a cup of coffee and sit down with candidates that you are serious about and have a pleasant, substantive, informal chat rather than asking candidates to outline their five-year research agenda or asking them how they would teach theory to their in two minutes. It sounds like the folks at some schools came correct, spent time with their candidates, and I'm going to apply enthusiastically because of it. The truth of the matter is, however, that the market is competitive, I'll have to apply to those schools who offered up 'gotcha' questions too...
"I'm not here to fucking teach!"
-job market candidate, 2008 interview for TT at R1
That's what I did. For those place I will wind up applying, I also intend to mention again in my cover letters that I enjoyed meeting them at ASA, etc.
I must say, I have always found this cattle call to be a horrid, insulting function. And yet each year it is reconstituted. There is a fascinating and irony-rich sociological analysis just waiting to be published...
what do I need to do to get that printed on a coffee mug?
I interviewed at one school where they asked me whether I would like one or two time slots. I took two, and having 40 minutes instead of 20 was very nice. I also felt that I learned a lot more about the department and their needs.
If I ever sit on the other side of the table, that is something I'd like to do for candidates.
I'd like to defend the employment service. If we allowed everyone to take as much time as they wanted, some candidates would monopolize a school's time, leaving fewer opportunities for others. Even with the 20-minute slots, some schools (UBC) still filled up quickly and ran out of space. Also, I didn't notice any nasty glances. If anything, we seemed to give looks of commiseration to one another. Most people know that we're all in the same boat and thus, I didn't detect any bad feelings.
One comment on here noted that few jobs actually come out of Employment Service. Do we know this? I once thought the same thing and then several faculty members I know mentioned that they received a few on-campus interviews from folks they met through the Employment Service. Plus, it's a way for candidates to assess whether they even want to apply. Two of my interviews turned me off so completely that I'm sure I won't be applying. It's also good practice in packaging yourself for on-campus interviews. So, it serves our interests as job-seekers as well.
10:34 -
Go to cafepress.com!
I must say that interviewing (my role this yr) is much better than being interviewed, and it does seem a dehumanizng process.
From the hiring point of view, I will say that for some candidates the 20 min went by way too fast, while for others it was clear after 10 minutes that we were not a good match, and time dragged. Two slots would be nice, if one could figure out in advance which candidates one would like to talk with for 40 minutes! We would wonder why some candidates even expressed interest in our school since it was obvious that s/he had no idea where our university was located, what areas we were looking to fill, or what the nature of our institution was. Grunting one word responses and not making eye contact was not a way to indicate interest.
From the hiring point of view, the process is also crazy. It costs a fair amount of $$ to bring in a limited number of candidates. After phone interviews with a short list, we will fly three in for a final evaluation. Undoubtedly, really good people get passed over--sometimes for what might seem crazy reasons (she remineds me of someone else, etc). On the other hand, we might bring in really strong candidates only to lose them to Harvard, Williams, or the like. So finding a good fit on a rather limited collection of info for a tenure track position is not the best.
Some thoughts from the hiring end, which may be obvious. It is a very good idea to check out the university and dept web page, and then let the school that you have done this IF you think you might be interested in the school.
An email thanks is very good. If you are really interested, send a personal note of thanks.
Be careful what info you post on the internet. Some schools will google you. I have done that with past candidates and found some very interesting info. Pictures of yourself intoxicated and profanity laced blogs are not such a good idea!
Does anyone know what the feeling is as to whether it is a "good" year to be on the market? It may just be me but it seems like job postings are down.
Just curious as to if anyone has a sense of whether it is a "good" year to be on the market? It may just be me but the number of jobs seems low for this time in August.
Does anyone have a sense of whether this is "good year" to be on the market? It may just be me but the number of postings seems down.
the total number of postings are the least relevant factor. more relevant are the number of postings that fit your qualifications and the competition pool for those specific jobs. the former you can know, the latter is always a mystery...
the total number of postings are the least relevant factor. more relevant are the number of postings that fit your qualifications and the competition pool for those specific jobs. the former you can know, the latter is always a mystery...
sorry for the multiple posts. they were not showing for me.
Good point - the job market depends on both supply and demand. On the demand side, I have to agree that it seems that there are fewer postings this year than in years past. Given that the majority of jobs are always open searches, it probably does indicate lower demand if there are fewer open searches.
While I have no idea what other schools are like, I can say that at my top-5 department, there are as many highly-qualified people with impressive publication records and/or outstanding teaching records on the market as in previous years.
In my top 25 program we have more job market candidates than in previous years. Obviously, we are not competing for the same jobs as the top 5 program candidates are but we still factor into the larger mix.
Does anyone have a sense of the extent to which department ranking does matter? I know it is hard to quantify, and all things being equal a graduate from a highly-ranked department likely has an edge over someone from a less highly-ranked one (not that I am endorsing this, just stating a fact). However, all things are never equal. In the overall mix of publications, teaching experience, grants, awards, etc, how does department ranking fit in?
And PS: I am already burned out on the job market ;)
Having sat on two search committees, my experience is that school rank trumps nearly all other considerations. On several occasions I would hear colleagues remark "it would be great to have a *top school* student" or "it would be great to have a student of *important advisor*."
A related question - is it useful for posters to this blog to indicate the rank of their school? Or is it just a way to assert status on an otherwise anonymous blog?
8:11 here -
I mentioned my school rank because it seems relevant to know that a top-5 school has lots of candidates on the market this year, given the assertion that department rank matters to SCs.
I concur that school rank trumps just about everything else. The one exception might be if you are coming from a very-good-but-not-great place, with a rising-star advisor in your subfield - and they are hiring in that subfield.
In my experience (just a few searches), having a top (ASR, SF, AJS) pub will lift you into the "yes" pile if you are not from a top 20 program - but otherwise it is tough to get into that "yes" pile.
I think identifying your program's rank is mostly to situate yourself and your comment; to demonstrate your perspective and how it may be limited; but we should be conscious of status markers.
I agree, mentioning rank is only to provide perspective on your comments. As far as needing to be top 20 to get into a yes pile, do you mean any yes pile or schools with PhD programs or...?
I chose my program based on working with my advisor who is well-established in my particular subfield. I'm very confident of the advisor's name-recognition, but less certain of the ranking of my program.
Where are the current ranking available??
There are many rankings. Per the Princeton Review:
1 University of Wisconsin--Madison
2 University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
3 University of Chicago
4 Harvard University
5 University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill
6 University of Pennsylvania
7 Stanford University
8 University of Washington
9 University of California--Los Angeles
10 Northwestern University
Per US News and World Reports...
1. University of Wisconsin--Madison
2. University of California--Berkeley
3. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
4. University of Chicago
University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill
6. Princeton University
Stanford University
8. Harvard University
University of California--Los Angeles
10. University of Pennsylvania
I think publications matter more than ranking. Plenty of people from lower ranked schools do well on the market, and I have known many people in my own top-5 department that have struggled to find a job. Your advisor's ability to network on your behalf matters, of course. But so does your CV!
3:51 here. As for the 'yes' pile, I am writing from the perspective of a PhD-granting department (lower-ranked R1), where it would be hard to get a close look without a top-20 degree or top pub.
To get an idea of how this works, look at the recent hires of places you'd like to get a job - where did they get their PhDs? What pubs did they likely have when they were on the market?
This can help you get an idea of your chances (but of course there are tons of variables!).
6:26 here
Well, I guess it will be a major miracle if I land an academic job then - seeing as how my degree is from a lesser ranked R1 (definitely NOT in the top 10 lists, but I certainly knew that!)
On the other hand, I'm extremely well networked and respected in the practitioner-side of my sub-field. At least I have a back-up option to academia!! (And the pay is much better than adjunct work as well..)
Is anyone else thinking of Plan B? Given the few number of postings thus far plus all the Big 10 talk, I'm getting discouraged...!!
You spent 7 years of grad school busting your butt so academia could throw you out on the street.
@ 10:33, FWIW, my degree will be from a top 3 department, I am well networked, 3 diss chapters are ready, interesting topic and yet I am totally freaked out at times about being on the academic job market because my pub situation is not great. My advice to myself and to you is: 1) read the posts here but remember that this is a very biased sample of posters (in exactly what ways I'm not sure), so don't let what you read here freak you out, factor it in with other things you're getting from other sources and just try to stay focused on the things you can control like dissertation writing; 2) remember how academic committees more generally work, scary, yes but also back to the control issue, just let it go, present yourself in the best possible light, be professional and humble and try to follow the instructions for applications but don't get too obsessive, 3) just keep working on your research, do a decent job teaching and see what happens, 4) always have a plan B (and C, etc.) because most everyone is not going to get an R1 job (if that's your goal), and plenty of people will not even get an academic job this year. If you, like me, have interests outside of academia, I say always keep that as an option. And don't let your ego or bitterness get in the way of just having a happy, healthy life. OK, I don't know if that helps anyone or not but I feel better : )
Excellent point! My advice is to start by thinking of the characteristics you'd like in a job: autonomy, good pay, peer respect, whatever. Then look for jobs that offer those things. It is an artifact of the status-driven structure of academia that non-academic jobs are often seen as the "plan B" for people who "couldn't land a TT job". However, jobs outside of academia can offer much more than a TT job depending on your specific goals.
And yes, always having a back-up plan is really smart! I have my dissertation basically done with several articles under review and multiple publications, but I will not be shocked if I don't land a job this year. Disappointed, yes, but not shocked. The job market can be so very random...
my plan B job is to get a quant analysis job at a government bureau like the census or the BLS or the CDC.
The national center for education statistics just sent around a job ad looking for a phd with quant skills and an interest in education policy..starting pay was like 90k a year. Another advantage of those plan b jobs are that some of them pay a LOT more than t-t jobs. :)
Just a quick comment on status markers and the job market from a current search committee member.
It is my impression that posters are tending to treat the most significant variables in getting interviews (advisor, publications, rank of program) as absolute determinants of outcomes on the job market. They aren't.
Of course all of these things are important, but the job market is tiered. The farther you get from top-10 programs the more other variables start to matter.
Finally, in my limited experience, actually getting the job depends disproportionately on job talk performance.
My take on all the "Top 10," "Top 5" talk: It's a way that folks from the Top 5 or 10 make themselves feel better about their prospects. I'm at a Top 30 or 50 research school, but certainly not a Madison or Berkeley and you know what? We've had 20ish Ph.D.'s in the last 2 or 3 years and every single one has a tenure-track job; some of them very desirable ones. So, you might not land a job at Columbia if you're not coming from a top-ranked program, but the notion that you won't land a tenure-track job is just foolishness, so long as you've published and have good teaching experience.
If you're at a lower ranked school, there's a higher probability you'll end up at a small liberal arts college, which I think are often left out of this discussion. Maybe the thread should be renamed "Miscellaneous Discussion of the (Research University) Job Market."
From @2:06 to @3;52
Wow, I just read back through the comments and I don't get that from what anyone said!!
Trust me, if I had it to do over again, I would definitely not go to the "Top 5" ranked program where I ended up. In fact, I recently steered a top prospect to another grad program and I'm always delighted to hear how happy the person is at the lower-ranked dept., knowing they would have been miserable here. In addition to the soul (and pub)-crushing years it takes to get through this program, our graduates do not do that well overall on the job market, from what I can tell. It's hard to say really because that information isn't made available through either formal or informal means.
Since dept. rank is one piece of the whole puzzle here, I think it's worthwhile sometimes to mention it. Also, it's simply been a useful bit of context to add to one's comments. Anyone who thinks, or thinks that anyone else thinks, that dept. rank is all it takes to get a job is simply being silly. I think we're really all sophisticated enough social scientists here to know that getting a job is a combination of factors, some very transparent, some not so.
As for SLACs, everyone I know on the job market from my dept. is applying to all of them and many of the grads I know about have ended up at one. As I said in my earlier post, I'm scared of not getting a job ANYwhere. At least half of my apps are going to SLACs and happily so ... I love to teach and I did my undergrad at a SLAC.
The other point about being at a "Top 5" or "Top 3" as in my case, is that it's kind of like being the super pretty girl in high school (or college, or ok, in life) ... you're always the target, in good ways and bad ... you're most likely to be labeled a snob by people who don't even know you and most likely to be alone on a Sat. night because everyone just assumes you wouldn't go out with them.
So that's what I worry. Without pubs, I won't make it into an R1, a lot of the R2s are up and coming R1s that won't take a chance on me with no pubs, and the SLACs assume a person like me (all this research experience) wouldn't want them, can't teach, etc. So I'm just trying to stay calm and hope for the best ... including that I don't get crushed by the "Top 5" backlash. Wouldn't that be perfect? Sigh. Is it too late for medical school?
You people are fucking crazy.
Wow, 7:18. I don't disagree with you, but please: be a sport and be specific.
hey, it's 6:26/10:33, back again!
Thanks so much to the encouraging posters. Actually, I found most of the comments (minus the deriding ones) pretty encouraging. I am definitely keeping a positive attitude about this process, mostly. And I am actually one of those people who would RATHER be at an SLAC than an R1 anyways...
I think 3:52 raises a very important point about our tendency to reinforce hierarchies of job opportunities. Whether for financial or other reasons, there are good reasons to seek employment outside of the academy.
Thanks, guys. You all gave me a super duper warm fuzzy feeling tonight.
There is really no point to worry too much about the hierarchies of the job market. We are all bounded by this social structure and what we can do at this point is simply to pick the schools that fit you and to prepare an application as strong as you can. Let the SC members worry about those "Top 5" "Top 10" questions. Wouldn't life be easier that way?
Should we also not worry about racism on the market? Sexism? Discrimination on the basis of martial status? Wouldn't life be easier that way?
I'm at a "top 69" program, and I was wondering...do you think it matters if I send my cover letters on regular paper, or should I use the more rigorous card stock? I know, if I was at a "top 3" program I could get away with the regular paper, but considering where I'm coming from, maybe some nice paper will help doll up my applications and make me look more attractive?
-kisses
anot sure if 5:30 was being sarcastic or not, but I am sending out my cover letters on my department's letterhead, and everything else on plain paper.
I am using plain paper. No department letterhead.
5:30 was being sarcastic.
I sat on SCs for 2 years of searches that generated 4 hires at a top-30 R1. There were always over 300 apps for each position. Publications reigned supreme in making the short list--there were always at least 30 applicants with significant sole-authored articles.
School rank mattered a little-- top 5 schools do elicit a "oooo, fancy" reaction when I see the letterhead-- but my general impression after 2 years was that a lot of top programs need to start mentoring their grad students better. They quite often were not the best candidates in the stack by far. Of course, when they were good, they won the SC's attention hands down.
The emphasis on pubs- in- hand meant we bypassed quite a few applicants with great promise. It is shocking how many of today's "rock stars" spent 2-3 years on the market in the 90's.
I agree with the post above that says good job talks are highly rated. Perhaps overrated.
It was all very intimidating, since I was a pub-less grad student at the time. There are so many good candidates out there.
Thanks to everyone who has posted their insights here! Is the emphasis on publications above all else only true for research-focused jobs? What about SLACs? Does the amount of teaching experience a candidate has matter? I have not taught in grad school and will not have the chance to before I am on the market. Is there anything I can do to be competitive for teaching jobs?
Just to clarify, @5:30 was making fun of what I wrote (that's the generous read). Never ceases to amaze me what people will write under the cover of anonymity. But hey, thanks for the reminder; just because it's sociology doesn't mean people won't write crass things in blog comments (or, for that matter, be crass and insensitive face to face).
Anyway, good luck to all; have a great semester!
I am the co-vice president of the university water polo club...should that go in my cover letter? I was thinking that it probably wouldn't matter for R1 programs, but what about SLACs? They might like to see my service record, right?
I'd put your water polo club presidency on there, probably at the end under "university service." The fact that I play in a university ochestra is on my CV and I've found in interviews that people often ask about it out of curiosity and it serves as a great way to either break the ice or talk about something other than sociology. Plus, it makes you seem well roudned.
7:06,
I'm at a SLAC.
We want to know if you can teach, and we want some kind of evidence to consider your app. If you don't have much experience, show us that you can do it. A good CV helps alot.
We don't want to hold your hand for 3 years while you learn on the job. In your cover letter, make your case; be persuasive.
Oh ok, thanks. I'm also the secretary of the university shuffleboard club. Should I put that on my CV too? Or maybe it would be more effective in the cover letter?
Thanks in advance!
You know, we're really lucky to have a forum to ask questions and get friendly answers--many other disciplines just don't have such a place. Making smart-alecky comments and then mocking the people who take them at face value and offer help is really, really lame.
7:01 - Thank you for the advice!
This is a really great forum. If you have nothing positive to contribute, don't clutter the boards with unkind posts. There are plenty of other forums in which you can throw anonymous barbs at total strangers - here it is just annoying.
5:52-
Last year I was on the SC of a SLAC...we brought someone in for a job talk because of their previous participation in the school choir. So, my advice is to definitely put that shuffleboard club in your cover letter. Good luck!
I was wondering where and how people find information about POST-DOC opportunities? Thanks in advance!
Check out the postdoc wiki: http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Humanities_postdocs_2007-2008
Just a reminder folks, but please don't feed the trolls. Like stray dogs, it only keeps them around longer.
Anybody know what the deal is with schools that interviewed at ASA but don't have a position ad in the job bank and/or didn't list application specifics in their employment service ad? This seems to be the case for almost all of the schools I was interested in (especially for ones I didn't actually meet with). I'm assuming we just need to wait for a formal announcement, but I'm wondering if many schools interview at ASA but then don't end up with an opening?
The formal ads in the bulletin are coming.
Some searches do get their funding stripped--and disappear. But, for the most part, if they were at ASAs, they are hiring.
I heard a rumor that UNC-Charlotte would have their posting up by early October.
12:57- why not email the person who interviewed you, thank them for the interview at ASA, and ask when they will be posting their job ad since you are so eager to apply to it? That way you get the info you need, and show the schools that you are still interested in the position (and maybe your name will stick out in their minds when you apply).
I think 12:57 was asking about some postings that he/she did NOT get to interview with. But either way, there is nothing wrong with emailing the contact person to ask when the posting will go up.
if i don't get a job this year, i'm going to be very upset
you and me both, my friend.
As one who held a couple of visiting appointments before finally getting on the tenure track at an R1 (which is hiring again this year, btw), I totally understand how upsetting striking out on the market can be. At the time, my advisor told me to not get too down, that it will work out. I found it very hard advice to follow, but it's true, so I pass it along anyway. If you don't get a job this year, don't get too down. It will work out. Hang in there.
just curious about how many people are on the market for the 1st year? 2nd? this is my 3rd year on the market so i am really hoping that the 3rd time will be the charm.
I'm on the market for the second year, although last year I didn't make much of an effort once it became clear I was not ready. I'm hoping things go well this time as I do not have the luxury of moving more than once due to family constraints.
I'm not actually on the market this year, but it took me 4 years to get a job that I liked. So hang in there.
I'm on the market for the first year, but am not 'fully' on the market- I'm so far applying to only 6 jobs, 4 of which are specifically looking for people in my subfield, and 2 are open positions in areas I would really like to live in. I have another year of funding after this year for my grad program, so if I don't get a job (and I don't expect to), I will treat that year like a post doc where I don't have to move and get paid less than a postdoc. :) Then next year in the fall I can go fully on the job market, and will try to turn some dissertation chapters into articles that I can send out.
how many schools are you all applying to?
I am applying to 21 schools at the moment, but new positions are still coming up so it may increase to 25 or so eventually.
Does anyone know if Hawaii is still hiring? Their ad is not on ASA anymore but is on the wiki (not sure how often this is updated). I assume funding fell through.
Thanks.
Any advice about how/whether one can spot a posting where "the fix is in"--i.e., they already have someone in mind for the position, esp. a visiting prof? I tend to suspect that whenever the description of the desired research area is very involved.
Hawaii is still hiring.
good question 5:25. It is always helpful to know when this is the case. on another note, what happened to Tufts? I saw an email about it but the Tufts HR page lists nothing. ?
I found out on Friday that the NC State search was cancelled, in case anyone was planning to apply for that one.
@ 8/30 5:25
That's a great question. I don't know how one can find that information out, other than sniffing around and asking friends... I suppose the tea leaves of the job listing (i.e., the areas of expertise listed) give the most obvious indication.
California State Univ-Sacramento
Cal State - Fullerton
Cal State - Long Beach
I don't see these positions listed in the job bank. Does anyone have the specifics on them that they wouldn't mind posting?
Why was the NCSU search canceled? Budget issues?
No idea about the reasons for the NC State thing... I found out about it from Human Resources when I called them about some issues I was having with the online application system.
9:48 -- Sorry to hear about the NCSU job, as I was hoping to apply for it. Was it ever posted? I thought I was obsessively checking for it, but never came across it (except on the jobs wiki listing). For future reference, can you let me know where you saw it? Thanks!
I talked with someone in the department at NCSU today and they said the opening there would be back up on the employment website soon - possibly by next week...
re: NCSU-I had heard that all faculty positions in the entire College of Humanities and Social Sciences were cancelled due to a rather large budget deficit.
Question: Some ads say include (1) writing sample.
I have three sole-authored in peer reviewed and one first author. They are not terribly long...should I just send them all in my packet?
1:25, I think I speak for everyone when I say "You have nothing to worry about". Send all four. Send your best one or one that fits best for that particular job description. Shake it up a bit and send three out of the four.
I do realize you have sort of a legitimate question. Nobody felt like it really was an important question when the high school quarterback wondered if he should wear eye-black is all.
Uhmmm...no offense. You might be interviewing me some day.
I would not send 4 articles if the job posting asked for one. It would suggest that you didn't bother to read the ad very carefully.
When the postings just ask for "samples of your writing", I am sending two articles.
Re 1:25, my approach is to send the exact number of samples they ask for, because as 6:49 mentioned, you don't want it to look like you ignored their instructions. I would suggest picking the piece that makes you look like the best fit for the job ad and then be clear in your letter that you would be abundantly willing to send along other manuscripts on request. They'll see you have lots of pubs on your CV, nothing good will come from overwhelming them with stuff they specifically asked you not to send
Ok, so I will follow the instructions and then they can see on my CV that I have other pubs or they can download them from my webpage. Thanks!
The odds are against me given the dept. I am at (bottom of the bottom).
Does anyone have an opinion on whether, when the ad asks for contact info for references (as opposed to letters) you should send letters anyway? This is currently being debated among people on the market in my dept. with mixed thoughts.
re: TUFTS
If you search the ASA bank for jobs in the "Northeast" the Tufts position ad shows up. They don't list any faculty jobs on their HR page.
@12:10
Having spoken to a faculty member at a school with this in their ad, they DID NOT want letters, but would ask for letters from candidates they screened based on the CV and cover letter.
Contrary to concerns about the Calif State system, Cal State Los Angeles is hiring (in Social Inequality), along with several other CSU campuses.
The California budget crunch will not necessarily affect faculty hiring, as the CSU system (like UC) has some financial autonomy, and student enrollments are surging. Job notices are being posted.
The CA budget crunch has already affected hiring, leading to cancellation of some searches in progress, and postponement of others, in all three levels of CA public higher education. This doesn't mean that there won't be any searches, or that all current searches will be cancelled, but the UC, CSU, and CC systems are all impacted.
Can I just say it: "Transcripts." Really? Why? So obnoxious.
Well, I am willing to get dinged for it: I am only sending the unofficial transcripts, not the $10/each official ones. It's just unaffordable.
Amen! I really wonder about the schools that ask for them...
Sorry if this has been covered earlier...
Regarding the specialization areas posted by schools, how well matched do candidates need to be to the desired specialty areas? When the requested areas aren't an exact match it can be difficult to decide whether to apply or whether to assume that I will be out of the running based solely on this criteria. I'm looking at theory positions primarily, and it seems to be a (relatively) good year this year, so I'm a bit hesitant about applying for positions where the speciality areas are more of a reach. Thanks
My advice is to apply for any positions you are interested in that could even possibly be a good match. Let the SC decide whether or not you fit their specialization area. The only way to guarentee that you aren't considered is to not apply.
If you think it is a bit of a reach to see how your background fits with a particular posting, explain in your cover letter how you fit.
Is anyone else surprised by the variation in posted salaries? Within Kentucky alone you have one school posting a salary range between 40-49K and another 80-89K. Am I naive, or is it crazy that there is a 100% difference in potential salaries for starting positions?
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