To those who have offers, accepted a position, or declined and offer, can you share how the whole process worked as far as receiving the offer and negotiating?
I just received an offer, but it was from a b-school. Not even a whiff of interest from any of the sociology departments, which really irks me. Anywhoo, now starts the negotiations, although with this being the only offer I'm not in a great position to haggle. With that said, it's a b-school, an R2, and the salary is very generous. The SC chair has hinted they are putting together a good package, including moving, start-up, research, etc, so I'll be interested to see. And the nice part is I won't have to deal with (many) MBA students, which is a big negative at many b-schools. So although it is disappointing to be rejected by my own discipline, I'm relieved to have found a good home.
I should say that this was my only in-person interview. So there is hope for everyone out there. All it takes is one good interview.
I'd actually like to correct 8:08's assumption. I've had a job for three years and I still read & comment on this blog because a) it's entertaining and (more importantly) b) I think demystifying the job search process and sharing information about how to get a job and the status of various searches (to the extent that we can and to the extent that this information is reliable) benefits grad students and job seekers.
Agreed - I'm in my second year on the TT and can't stay away (although I check much, much less frequently than when I was on the market!).
I have to say to 3:24 that it is going to vary from place to place. Usually the department will call and let you know the details of the offer - at which point you should carefully write it all down and tell them you need to talk it all over with your advisor. This buys you a little time to think about what you want to negotiate for (and, you actually should talk it over with your advisor!). Also ask what their time line is in terms of you making a decision.
Then, figure out what you want to ask for (think: extra months of summer salary, more salary; more research funds (but be specific about why you need them); reduced teaching load in the first year (can't stress this enough), etc. Realize that one-off costs (summer salary and research funds, for example) are easier for them to swing than large salary increases. Then call the chair back and tell them all this. Be gracious throughout. It is doubtful that anyone would rescind an offer based on hard negotiating but it can certainly cause lingering tensions (esp. if you ask for or get way more than the other jrs in the dept).
Then, they will probably talk to the Dean and call you back with a counter offer - which hopefully you will then accept. If you are lucky enough to be juggling multiple offers, you will have to be doing all this in tandem with the additional leverage of using what others are offering you (but of course be ethical and honest - they do check up on these things).
Finally, and this could take many days or even weeks, you will get the firm offer letter, which you usually have to sign and return.
well i'm glad you have offers and jobs, i'm facing the loss of health insurance for my precious 2 year old daughter, have fun getting tenure...guess i failed as parent and sociologist
This is 8:52pm again. Yes, I have an offer, but it hasn't been an easy path. I uprooted myself as an ABD for my spouse's position, and have been slogging it out the last five years in a non-TT, entirely soft money position (with no health or dental insurance...or the respect of the "colleagues" in my department). Because of this, it took me longer to finish the PhD (a big factor on the job market, despite the fact that I've published decently over these years). I'm not going to apologize for my offer or feel sorry for you (I have two precious children, perhaps the biggest reasons I worked my butt off in a non-TT position for so long). You've only failed if you let yourself fail.
While this is off-topic, it is in response to a previous concern over child health care. I know it isn't the best insurance in the world, and that every state has different requirements, but the state children's health insurance program is worth looking into if you are really worried about getting health insurance for your child. Here's the address, if you don't have it:
this may belong in another thread, but i'm posting it here...because i can!
it really bothers me when people on the job market begrudge others who land offers. we're all in the same boat here! we all worked hard in grad school, tried to do good research, and cared about our students and our teaching. it is an inherent fact of the system that for every opening, someone will get an offer and all the other applicants will not. there's no reason to resent the person who got the offer.
i am sympathetic to how scary it is to face losing insurance and income when you have a child. however, jobs are not allocated based on need. if that were the case, i'd totally have a ton of offers - i have five of those "precious kids" (all of whom will lose their health insurance soon). i'm not saying i like the system, but we knew what it was coming in.
i'm happy for everyone who gets a job, but still sad that i haven't.
actually, the state health insurance programs are generally pretty good. my kids have been on ours throughout graduate school and it has covered some pretty serious heath crisis situations. if you are facing the loss of health insurance, do go check out your SCHIP options!
For those who are lucky enough to be getting offers, could you please provide details that will help others in the negotiation process? For instance, the region/type of school, salary, start-up/moving costs? Thanks.
What about research money? Has anyone gotten research money, and was it a lump sum or spread out over the years before tenure? This is a top priority of mine, but I'm not sure what the standard amounts would be. Guess it would also depend on the type/location of research, right?
The amounts vary widely, and it would depend on all of the things you mentioned. The most important thing to do is to base your request on your research needs.
Think of this as related to a grant application. When you submit a budget for a grant, you are more likely to get what you ask for when you clearly explain why you need the money and what it will be used for, including breaking down the costs. Similarly, ask yourself if it would make more sense for you to have it as a lump sum, or if spreading it out would be fine.
This, of course, requires that you have some idea of what research you might be doing, and what the costs might be. Most places have already asked about the first one; the second might require a little research on your part.
You may not get what you're asking for, of course, but it's a lot more likely than just asking for an amount. It might also start the process of getting information about resources to help you get additional internal or external funding.
Concerning research start-up funds: it seems there are different rules about how this money is handled. Keep in mind that some dept chairs oversee your funds as a portion of dept funds. At other places you get your own account set up. The difference is that if your fund is separate you have more control about how and when you spend. When the chair holds the strings, he/she may try to juggle w/other expenses. This can mean you face delays getting and using you research $ when you need it. It might also be harder to track outflows from your fund. In penny pinching environments, the dept may charge your fund for things that are regular expenses (e.g. xeroxing or printer cartridges).
If you're in the lucky position of having multiple offers, keep in mind what each dept covers outside of your research fund. Sometimes computer hard/software/supplies are a separate item and sometimes they expect you to cover those costs with your research fund.
Whatever you do, make sure you negotiate the strongest package you can. Congratulations & good luck!
I am in the position of negotiating terms at the moment and it seems that the startup money is where I will have the most flexibility. Can anyone contribute some ideas of things that should be included here. I understand that I need to justify why I will need these things, but I am still reeling from the interview process and am having a hard time thinking ahead to what my needs might be. Maybe others have some advice based upon their own experiences. Thanks in advance.
The advice I have been given is that you should negotiate for time more than anything. So, if you can get a one course reduction for the first 2 years or so, that will give you more time to focus on research (if this is the type of school where tenure depends on publications). Then, for the start up package, you could ask for money for the following things: books, manuals, journals; statistical software; research funds; travel for collaboration or research (e.g. back to your grad school to finish up papers); requesting journals/books from the library to which they may not have subscriptions; membership fees for the first year; summer salary for a month before you would normally begin getting paid, to help with settling in and getting started before classes start. Hope this helps!
I heard someone recommend having your school pay for you to have a "lifetime" membership in the main professional societies; last time I checked it was equal to about 10 years worth of membership, but you never have to worry about it again.
if anyone on here has accepted an offer (either this year or in previous years), would you be willing to share what you successfully negotiated for, and whether or not you had a competing offer to negotiate with? Thanks, Still Trying to Figure Out What to Negotiate For
how are startup funds disbursed? are they given to new faculty in a lump sum, or are they kept in the department and the department pays the expenses directly?
For a small liberal arts college, $56 K seems low. The good SLACS have a rich endowment and should pay better than the mid-range state universities. AAUP shows salaries by college and rank.
If a SLAC is in a comfortable low-cost housing area, though, then you're saving costs that way.
About startup funds: usually there's a department fund in your name. You have to order things or provide account receipts for your expenses. Also beware that the account may have to be used up (or else lost) in your first academic or fiscal year.
There are a large number of good SLACS with average Assistant Professor salaries lower than 56k. I think that the cost of living in the area has a lot to do with it, since some of the top ranked schools are on the East and West coasts. In an area with a lower cost of living, I would consider 56k a great starting salary.
From a mid-tier R-1 in an area with a low cost of living:
$60K salary 3 course reductions $6K research/travel money spousal accommodation $600 in library funds 1 month summer salary (if you get this, take this the summer before you start!)
My package combines what I got from the dept and the university administration
Some of you make it sound as if getting a job is based purely on hard work and merit. I think the use of the word "fortunate" is appropriate. Getting a job is often more related to things like the ranking of your graduate institution, who your adviser is and who your adviser knows, as well as a number of other random and mostly illogical criteria, in addition to scholarship. I know of candidates who have great records and interesting research, but due to other unknown factors, did not get a job. I am sure we would all like to believe that we got jobs that were based on a "rational" process, but as sociologists we should know better.
Not to prop up the meritocracy, but it also has a lot to do with where you apply. My offer is from a school where I had no connections whatsoever, but they didn't get a lot of applicants due to location.
Scholarly productivity and teaching excellence may not be the only criteria - we all know that other things matter - but there are a LOT of people on the market from top-5 departments who have well-connected mentors but are not getting jobs.
Job market "success" comes down to a whole lot of things including department prestige, network connections, publications, teaching ability, success landing grants, professional awards, congeniality, sub-field, mentors, and where you apply.
If I had a data set, I'd run a pretty logit model and know the exact influence of each, but I bet there's a lot of collinearity among the dependent variables ;)
I just got the details from the offer from a b-school. This is a R2 b-school in the midwest with a low-cost of living.
9 month salary: $110,000 $10,000 of summer salary for research for each of the first two summers 2-2 teaching load $2,000 - moving expenses New computer to my specifications
I know this is a little gross in the face of sociology salaries, but I put this out there for comparison. I would love to go work for a soc department, but no one contacted me. So I gotta go where I'm wanted.
It would help me if I knew what people mean when they talk about tiers. Do you mean in terms of US News overall ranking, or do you mean ranking of the graduate program?
base offer for private R1 in low-to-moderate COL area:
salary in low- to mid-70s summer salary in first year research account appx $40K course release in first year full moving expenses conference travel (1 / year)
I'm surprised by the number of schools that have made offers and still haven't been posted as confirming hires. Is that just because the people who got the jobs don't post? Or are there a few people who are still deciding on which offer to take?
I have three friends with offers (anywhere from 1-3 offers) who are trying to negotiate positions for their spouses. That kind of thing can hold up the market for a while - sometimes it's tricky to work out, but often departments will try - and that takes time.
I also know two people with (at least) one offer trying to get their spouse hired. I think this is actually getting to be even more common. Sometimes it will work and sometimes not, but it will take a few weeks to figure that out. It sucks for the rest of us hoping to hear back before Christmas, as it kind of ties everything up.
My offer at a private R2 in a place with a high col:
$65k salary $20k start up + research money (over 3 years) $1k annually for conferences $3k moving costs 3 course release in first 2 years (normal load is 2-2)
I am one of those people trying to negotiate a spousal hire at a research 2 school. For those who have been successful at doing this can you give me some advice. I feel bad that I'm "holding up" the job market, but so far I'm not having any luck getting spousal accomodations. Thoughts anyone?
Don't feel bad that you're "holding things up." You aren't--this is part of it.
I've known 2 people who've gotten their spouses a VAP position, in two different fields. In one case it was horrible, the department treated him like worse than no one. After doing a joint market run a year later, however, and getting joint offers somewhere else, she got a raise and he got a TT job in a related department at the same place.
In the other case they treated him very well and he did actually eventually morph into TT, though later than they'd thought. For them it was a combination of the school keeping good faith and the first hire being really really good.
Of course, we also know that these can end up with the spouse stuck in VAP mode.
Beyond that... I'd also be happy if someone were to post advice! Success stories, even?
I'm also trying to negotiate spousal hire at an R1 and would appreciate any suggestions or success stories! Does anyone know if it is possible to negotiate for a TT position not for the next academic year, but for the year following?
I don't have any advice, but I just wanted to say that I don't blame people who are trying to negotiate a spousal hire for slowing things down. If my partner was an academic I would be doing the same thing.
Got an offer from a teaching university in the midwest. It's a good fit, and I want to take it, but I feel like I need to really negotiate the offer looking at what others are getting on this blog. The offer is currently:
$46K (Low COL) $1500 moving (can use any remaining for conf. travel) 4/4 teaching load with no course releases
Any suggestions on how to negotiate for more? I don't even know how to do it. Presumably you high-ball them, but I don't want to put off people I will be working with/for with something offensively higher than their offer. They are also hiring several other TT asst. profs. this year, so I worry that they would feel obliged to give anything I ask for (particularly in terms of course releases) to everyone, thus making my bargaining position very weak. But on the other hand I feel like this is my only chance to truly ask for what I want.
They are expecting you to negotiate. They are not going to change their minds about hiring you because you ask for more money. And, you need to ask for more than what you're willing to settle for so that they can get up to the number you need. You can do it!
My adviser, who LOVES to negotiate, suggested counter-offering with a 10% increase in salary, then negotiate for time. So, I'd ask for around $50,000 for salary. This is a teaching college, so presumably you sold yourself as valuing teaching. If that is the case, I would be hesitant to ask for course release (though they are unlikely to rescind the offer) but would instead suggest that you ask for fewer course preps or perhaps for a TA in a few of those courses. If you have time, check into how much it would likely cost to move, and tell them what the cost is, justifying any request you may have to up those moving funds.
Congratualations on the offer! Did they really contact you on 12/24?
I want to say that the offers posted on this board ave not a good way to see the average of the discipline. On the ASA website, it says that the average new TT assistant professor made about 52,400 last year. That means that half of them made LESS, but if you look through last year's "Hires" most people describe theur salary in the 60,000s. I excpet this year is will be about 53K.
As far as negotiating, I agree with the above poster that you should ask for $50,000, but I would expect closer to 47K. As far as classes, you should ask for 2-3 preps per semester. This will be a HUGE deal once you actually begin the job. It also shouldn't be too hard for the school to accomadate. I would ask for what your actually moving costs will be (often $3000) but not expect more than $2000.
Two notes-- first of all each new TT prof will negotiate separately. The school does not need to give all of you the same deal, so don't worry about that. Second, this is a really hard year to negotiate! You need to try to negotiate (my advisor says that they will respect you more if you do) and the school should be willing to bend a little, but don't be surprised if negotiating doesn't get you as much $$ as in other years. Remember that you can also ask for guarenteed summer classes for either 2009 or 2010 to augment your salary.
By the way, have you added your school to the "offers" list? I interviewed at a school with the exact same package and I am curious if it is the same school.
Here's my offer at a top public R1 in moderate COL area.
$60k salary
$5k summer salary for 3 years
1 course release in the first year (load is 2/2)
Small amount of money for desktop, journals, etc.
While I am thrilled to have an offer at this school, I am a bit frustrated because I know they are lowballing me on the salary. Unfortunately, I don't have a counter offer and this school is very unwilling to budge. I am trying to get some research funds, but it looks like even if I succeed, they would be minimal (like $1000).
To 1:05, yes, I have tried, but the chair insisted that the dean would not go any higher on the salary. I am still waiting to hear back about my request for research funds. I know I'm not a great negotiator, but I think this place is particularly tough. I guess they are really using this economic crisis to nickel and dime incoming hires.
Have you compared the offer with the faculty salary survey? Maybe this is just typical for that institution: http://chronicle.com/stats/aaup/index.php?action=result&year=2008&state=&search=&category=&institution=0&offset=0&withRanks=1&sort=institution&showall=1
I don't think 60K is out of line for a public R1, esp. if it's in a state suffering budget shortfalls. To receive much higher, you'll need to find a rich private institution or have multiple offers to play off each other.
I do think that schools that can offer $65K or above will have better luck getting their desired new hires.
Perhaps not, but if you're referring to 11:56 what seems skimpy is the low salary in combination with practically no start-up funds of any kind - for a top R1 school. Certainly it doesn't seem to compare favorably with other offers listed here from similar institutions.
Agreed. That is certainly a low offer for an R1. The start-up costs should be in the range of at least 10 to 15k. I don't know how an R1 school can expect their new faculty to publish well within the first few years with 1k in start-up costs. But, in these times, I'd take the job, so best of luck to 11:56.
Though I should say 9:17 that the salary is good for a low COL area. That is almost comparable to the salary of my best friend who is at an R1 but in a very high COL area. He has to work overtime to get internal and external grants to supplement the eye-popping rent, food, etc. costs. But, to have a job at a top pubic R1 in a low COL area is something a deeply envy. Just try not to let the dept increase your course preps in the first few years.
Anyone else waiting for their written contract? Although everyone at the school swears up and down that it is a done deal, I will feel better when I have the written offer signed by the school!
Has anyone else encountered a written, signed offer that explicitly says it is contingent upon approval by the university's president? I assume this is standard at many places.
A written offer is great, but it still feels like it's not a done deal. I realize presidential approval is largely a formality, but when/how does it happen, and is a new document (a contract?) issued after is happens? To put it another way, how do I know I absolutely, definitely have a job (or at least an actionable breach-of-contract case)?
For your contract to be a done deal, you need the President's signature - they control the budget. When I received my offer, the department waited for the President to sign it first before sending it to me for my signature.
I also wanted to mention that my adviser said that after you sign your contract, things get eerily quiet for quite some time. His advice was to try not to read into that because it doesn't mean anything.
In my case, I had to wait for the contract to be solid until the board met to approve my hire - which wasn't until May! But they assured me it was a formality, and indeed it was. It was a little scary.
This whole issue (written offer/contract)is scary because in this job market it's hard to know that you have a job "for sure."
I have currently waiting on the written contract and I'm not sure what to tell other search committees who have asked if I am still interested in their position. So far, I have said that I am still interested--it will feel risky whenever I finally tell them I am withdrawing from the searches.
I'm in a hiring dept (I really can't say where), but I would advise people to keep interviewing even after you've gotten a verbal offer (or an informal offer from a dept chair and are waiting the formal offer from some higher-up). Things can definitely get pulled after you've gotten a verbal offer (or the verbal/informal agreements can get changed) and, as an earlier poster said, can even get pulled occasionally with a written contract. We are in danger of losing our chosen hire due to some issue at a higher level - our dept chair had informally contacted our choice and told them to wait for a call from a Dean, but b/c of this new issue, I don't think that call has been made. We don't know when things will be resolved, and we're not allowed to contact our choice to explain things.
I received a verbal offer, negotiated, and then received a formal letter from the Dean with the details of the offer (and asking for a written response by a specified date). The only contingency stated in the offer letter was that the tenure track position was contingent on my finishing my ph.d. by a particular date (and that if I fail to do so, the position would become a one-year adjunct post). No mention about all of this being contingent on approval by the President, etc. was made. Should I feel secure that this is set in stone at this point?
10:50 AM It sounds pretty secure but I would get that PhD done as soon as possible. I was about to finish mine but until they got a letter from the Dean of the graduate school confirming that, my title was lecturer and my salary was 90% of what we negotiated. I did have the semester to finish the PhD if it was not done before I started but my status and salary would not change until they had that piece of paper from the Dean. I did end up finishing so it was never an issue but if I had not finish it before the deadline I would not have kept my job.
If anyone's still looking... there's a new post on the 08-09 job hire thread for University of Illinois at Springfield. They start reviewing applications February 2 for an August 09 start date.
Any idea how long it usually takes the department to get an approval from the present? I was offered a job by one department (verbally) They told me they had to get the present's approval for the writing offer before sending it to me. It has been almost 3 weeks since they told me they gave it to the present. My anxiety is brewing. Thanks for any information.
5:15, yes is the answer. Especially if you don't have other offers! No sense in holding out for another year, given that next hiring season looks to be worse than this one.
That sounds like more of an existential question... I mean, can we give something to the present, or is it already the past by then...? It might cause a rift in the time-space continuum. I'd call HR to find out.
It varies a lot, by the general administrative efficiency of the institution and by that particular person's priorities of the moment. My offer also waited on somebody's desk for a good couple of weeks, but the Dean at another school gave the official approval to a friend's offer the same day the committee met.
I've been waiting 2 months for a written contract and have no idea if it's even made it to the president. Yes, I've inquired. Sanity has become a daily battle...
I thought I am the only on who has been going through bouts of anxiety over a written contract. My adviser told me to go about my business and assured me that everything would be fine eventually. I am almost going into Ross's confusion "did I? or did I not?" (friends)
The President needs to sign the offer before they send it to you? What if you get another offer during this two month wait? Do you take it on faith that it is coming?
The search committee chair told me that a written contract had to be approved by both the dean and the president before he could reveal it to me. I have been waiting without knowing any details about my offer, although he told me I would get a very good offer. Is it a usual practice?
I do think it's standard practice to have the written contract signed off on by deans and presidents, but not revealing details to you? That's very suspicious to me...
Usually, offers are informally negotiated before there's a written offer. At the very least, they should be able to outline the basic content of your contract. If this hasn't been done for you yet and they won't give you any details when asked, you might think about having your advisor or department chair contact them on your behalf.
This partially depends on school policy. Another model is to send out an original written offer--that makes the offer official, which is a protection to you (and I did see that earlier conversation about the one rescinded offer after everyone signed everything, that still sounds extremely strange)--with the understanding that another written offer will be made after negotiations.
Some places don't let people even negotiate until the original offer is signed off on (which may be a Dean thing or may be a Dean and President thing, depending on the place).
That said, two months is indeed a long time to wait.
Offer from a state university in the midwest, no graduate program, very low cost of living:
$48,000 $1000 moving expenses $6000 stipend for the summer after my first year pending budgetary approval Computer of my choice.
I negotiated and ended up with:
$49,000 $1,500 moving expenses $6,000 in the first year or sometime during my pre-tenure period. Reduced class sizes. Qualitative software Computer of my choice
Let me say that I do not enjoy bargaining at all, but I did it anyway. I looked up the average starting salary for assistant professors and pointed out that they were offering me less than the average.
I got an online estimate from uhaul and was able to get them to bump up my moving expenses by $500.
Lastly, I asked them to reduce the class size for the two Intro classes I'll be teaching in the fall from 75/75 to 20/45.
Again, I don't like negotiating but I know that the gender gap in earnings stems, in large part, from women taking first offers. I only got a $1000 increase in base salary, but over time this will make a significant difference, since raises are given as a percentage of the base salary.
For those that have been hired,(congratulations), would you be able to generally describe your publishing record, teaching experience, etc. to give an idea of "what it takes"?
It's very interesting to hear about pay conditions, but I think it would also be very useful to know the general credentials of those that have been successful. This would be very helpful for those of us that are trying to improve for next job hunt.
I think that's an interesting idea. I got a job at a SLAC with the following record:
-ABD in a top 25 department -Two semesters teaching an honors-level statistics course -Ten semesters teaching in my department (including summers) -Two semesters teaching at a commuter campus (concurrent with above) -Departmental teaching award -Two coauthored book chapters (one first author, one third author) -Coauthored R&R in progress at a well-regarded journal -Two additional papers in progress -Five coauthored ASA presentations -Three coauthored presentations at regional and other conferences -Four years of service on departmental committees -One book review
-ABD in top-15 -seven publications (mix of single/first/multiple authored), none ASR/AJS -ASA paper award -developed and taught a class -8 conference presentations -external graduate fellowship
Can those who mentioned knowing people who attempted to negotiate a position for their partner/spouse elaborate on exactly how they did so? I am currently in a TT position on the west coast. My fiance looked for a job out here this year to no avail. he was just offered a position on the east coast (in history). we want to be together and have decided that he should take that job. how could he feel around to see if there's a possibility of something for me there? i don't really want to leave my TT position for adjuncting. But HOW does he actually go about having that conversation with the Dean?
They aren't going to revoke his offer because he inquires about a spousal hire. He might just explain that you have a tenure track position and ask whether they offer spousal hires or assistance for spouses trying to find employment. They might, they might not, but you won't know unless he asks.
There's been a lot of talk about journal articles and publication records in relation to job market success. I wanted to add some thoughts which come from my own perspective as a qualitative scholar and a book writer... I did fairly well on the market this year (as opposed to last year when I did not do nearly so well) at least partly because my dissertation project had been turned into a book manuscript and was already under contract. So my little bit of advice to the book writers out there is to talk to publishers quickly. Don't wait on this till later. Get the dissertation done and get it submitted to a press. If you can get a book contract before you send out your cv in the fall, this may make a big difference. I think having a book contract (and not just a manuscript in progress) really helped get my cv noticed.
just keep in mind it depends entirely on when the other interviews are scheduled. Someone who was the first to be interviewed might have to wait a month or more even if the dept makes a decision relatively quickly.
for those that waited awhile to hear back (5 weeks sounds like absolute torture), is there ever a time where you would call the SC to ask how the process is moving along?
I explicitly asked the search committee chairs during my interviews when I could expect to hear back and then contacted them a few days after if the time had passed. At one institution I felt I had developed a pleasant relationship with the chair and hu was very understanding about my request (but I did not get the offer). In the other case hu was less forthcoming but I ended up getting the offer.
I think it's your call. If the search committee told you to expect to hear by a certain date and you haven't, then I don't think a friendly inquiry is unreasonable.
Re: 8:28 No, I didn't call because that was the week that they had told me to expect to know something. (I e-mailed SC chair after interview to find out about timeline since I forgot to ask during campus visit). If that week had passed without me hearing anything, I might have sent an e-mail, but only to the SC chair.
Many of the large newspapers in certain states post the annual salaries of state employees, including professors. They gotten the information through FOIA requests. Just do a google search on "state salaries" and you'll come up with a bunch. It's always interesting to see how much (or how little) some folks are paid.
I teach in the SUNY system, one of the smaller campuses. I've been more or less stuck here for 5 years (could have left after two but couldn't make it work for the rest of the family) and I can say that this campus is dreadful. People I talk to at other SUNY campuses are reporting similar or identical conditions. The pay is horrible and you can forget startup costs, moving expenses, ect. for run of the mill sociology positions. And that was before the whole state gov. started to tank. The whole SUNY system is on fire and sinking. Faculty who can leave are bailing out as they can. Travel funds are frozen, sabbaticals have been suspended in all but a few exceptional cases, classes are bulging beyond capacity, vacated tenured faculty are not being replaced, adjuncts almost outnumber the TT faculty, students (facing high unemployment rates) are demoralized and frightened, and now talk of retrenchment is starting.
If a SUNY offer is all you have I guess you're stuck with that or unemployment. If you have more than one offer, though, avoid SUNY like the plague.
130 comments:
OK, someone's got to post something here!
To those who have offers, accepted a position, or declined and offer, can you share how the whole process worked as far as receiving the offer and negotiating?
they don't give a shit anymore, they have bigger things than this blog now, if i got an offer i would get right off this blog faster than
I just received an offer, but it was from a b-school. Not even a whiff of interest from any of the sociology departments, which really irks me. Anywhoo, now starts the negotiations, although with this being the only offer I'm not in a great position to haggle. With that said, it's a b-school, an R2, and the salary is very generous. The SC chair has hinted they are putting together a good package, including moving, start-up, research, etc, so I'll be interested to see. And the nice part is I won't have to deal with (many) MBA students, which is a big negative at many b-schools. So although it is disappointing to be rejected by my own discipline, I'm relieved to have found a good home.
I should say that this was my only in-person interview. So there is hope for everyone out there. All it takes is one good interview.
I'd actually like to correct 8:08's assumption. I've had a job for three years and I still read & comment on this blog because a) it's entertaining and (more importantly) b) I think demystifying the job search process and sharing information about how to get a job and the status of various searches (to the extent that we can and to the extent that this information is reliable) benefits grad students and job seekers.
-Mel
Agreed - I'm in my second year on the TT and can't stay away (although I check much, much less frequently than when I was on the market!).
I have to say to 3:24 that it is going to vary from place to place. Usually the department will call and let you know the details of the offer - at which point you should carefully write it all down and tell them you need to talk it all over with your advisor. This buys you a little time to think about what you want to negotiate for (and, you actually should talk it over with your advisor!). Also ask what their time line is in terms of you making a decision.
Then, figure out what you want to ask for (think: extra months of summer salary, more salary; more research funds (but be specific about why you need them); reduced teaching load in the first year (can't stress this enough), etc. Realize that one-off costs (summer salary and research funds, for example) are easier for them to swing than large salary increases. Then call the chair back and tell them all this. Be gracious throughout. It is doubtful that anyone would rescind an offer based on hard negotiating but it can certainly cause lingering tensions (esp. if you ask for or get way more than the other jrs in the dept).
Then, they will probably talk to the Dean and call you back with a counter offer - which hopefully you will then accept. If you are lucky enough to be juggling multiple offers, you will have to be doing all this in tandem with the additional leverage of using what others are offering you (but of course be ethical and honest - they do check up on these things).
Finally, and this could take many days or even weeks, you will get the firm offer letter, which you usually have to sign and return.
Hope this helps.
well i'm glad you have offers and jobs, i'm facing the loss of health insurance for my precious 2 year old daughter, have fun getting tenure...guess i failed as parent and sociologist
This is 8:52pm again. Yes, I have an offer, but it hasn't been an easy path. I uprooted myself as an ABD for my spouse's position, and have been slogging it out the last five years in a non-TT, entirely soft money position (with no health or dental insurance...or the respect of the "colleagues" in my department). Because of this, it took me longer to finish the PhD (a big factor on the job market, despite the fact that I've published decently over these years). I'm not going to apologize for my offer or feel sorry for you (I have two precious children, perhaps the biggest reasons I worked my butt off in a non-TT position for so long). You've only failed if you let yourself fail.
While this is off-topic, it is in response to a previous concern over child health care. I know it isn't the best insurance in the world, and that every state has different requirements, but the state children's health insurance program is worth looking into if you are really worried about getting health insurance for your child. Here's the address, if you don't have it:
http://www.cms.hhs.gov/home/schip.asp
Best of luck to you.
this may belong in another thread, but i'm posting it here...because i can!
it really bothers me when people on the job market begrudge others who land offers. we're all in the same boat here! we all worked hard in grad school, tried to do good research, and cared about our students and our teaching. it is an inherent fact of the system that for every opening, someone will get an offer and all the other applicants will not. there's no reason to resent the person who got the offer.
i am sympathetic to how scary it is to face losing insurance and income when you have a child. however, jobs are not allocated based on need. if that were the case, i'd totally have a ton of offers - i have five of those "precious kids" (all of whom will lose their health insurance soon). i'm not saying i like the system, but we knew what it was coming in.
i'm happy for everyone who gets a job, but still sad that i haven't.
actually, the state health insurance programs are generally pretty good. my kids have been on ours throughout graduate school and it has covered some pretty serious heath crisis situations. if you are facing the loss of health insurance, do go check out your SCHIP options!
For those who are lucky enough to be getting offers, could you please provide details that will help others in the negotiation process? For instance, the region/type of school, salary, start-up/moving costs? Thanks.
10:22 again here. I shouldn't have said "lucky"; rather, those of you who are fortunate enough to be getting offers (I'm sure they're well deserved :)
I've got one offer from a mid-tier research university (i'd rather not say where since there still haven't been many offers).
$66K
1 course reduction for first two years
$4K moving
$2K startup (basically enough to buy a new computer and software).
I'd be interested to hear about other offers so I can compare...
I got an offer from a regional comprehensive undergraduate institution.
$53K salary
$8K optional for summer teaching
$1K moving costs
Expenses covered for 1 professional conference a year
This is a part of the country where the cost of living is very low.
12:03 - can you tell us what region the school is in or maybe just an idea of the cost of living there. Congrats on the job offers!
Yes! Region of the country/standard of living matters a lot!
12:03 here.
Relatively high cost of living.
What about research money? Has anyone gotten research money, and was it a lump sum or spread out over the years before tenure? This is a top priority of mine, but I'm not sure what the standard amounts would be. Guess it would also depend on the type/location of research, right?
The amounts vary widely, and it would depend on all of the things you mentioned. The most important thing to do is to base your request on your research needs.
Think of this as related to a grant application. When you submit a budget for a grant, you are more likely to get what you ask for when you clearly explain why you need the money and what it will be used for, including breaking down the costs. Similarly, ask yourself if it would make more sense for you to have it as a lump sum, or if spreading it out would be fine.
This, of course, requires that you have some idea of what research you might be doing, and what the costs might be. Most places have already asked about the first one; the second might require a little research on your part.
You may not get what you're asking for, of course, but it's a lot more likely than just asking for an amount. It might also start the process of getting information about resources to help you get additional internal or external funding.
Concerning research start-up funds: it seems there are different rules about how this money is handled. Keep in mind that some dept chairs oversee your funds as a portion of dept funds. At other places you get your own account set up. The difference is that if your fund is separate you have more control about how and when you spend. When the chair holds the strings, he/she may try to juggle w/other expenses. This can mean you face delays getting and using you research $ when you need it. It might also be harder to track outflows from your fund. In penny pinching environments, the dept may charge your fund for things that are regular expenses (e.g. xeroxing or printer cartridges).
If you're in the lucky position of having multiple offers, keep in mind what each dept covers outside of your research fund. Sometimes computer hard/software/supplies are a separate item and sometimes they expect you to cover those costs with your research fund.
Whatever you do, make sure you negotiate the strongest package you can. Congratulations & good luck!
I am in the position of negotiating terms at the moment and it seems that the startup money is where I will have the most flexibility. Can anyone contribute some ideas of things that should be included here. I understand that I need to justify why I will need these things, but I am still reeling from the interview process and am having a hard time thinking ahead to what my needs might be. Maybe others have some advice based upon their own experiences. Thanks in advance.
The advice I have been given is that you should negotiate for time more than anything. So, if you can get a one course reduction for the first 2 years or so, that will give you more time to focus on research (if this is the type of school where tenure depends on publications). Then, for the start up package, you could ask for money for the following things: books, manuals, journals; statistical software; research funds; travel for collaboration or research (e.g. back to your grad school to finish up papers); requesting journals/books from the library to which they may not have subscriptions; membership fees for the first year; summer salary for a month before you would normally begin getting paid, to help with settling in and getting started before classes start. Hope this helps!
I heard someone recommend having your school pay for you to have a "lifetime" membership in the main professional societies; last time I checked it was equal to about 10 years worth of membership, but you never have to worry about it again.
if anyone on here has accepted an offer (either this year or in previous years), would you be willing to share what you successfully negotiated for, and whether or not you had a competing offer to negotiate with?
Thanks,
Still Trying to Figure Out What to Negotiate For
good SLAC east of mississippi
I ended up with:
56k
1 course release
3k research funds
3k moving costs
Thanks 8:12! That is very helpful!
how are startup funds disbursed? are they given to new faculty in a lump sum, or are they kept in the department and the department pays the expenses directly?
For a small liberal arts college, $56 K seems low. The good SLACS have a rich endowment and should pay better than the mid-range state universities. AAUP shows salaries by college and rank.
If a SLAC is in a comfortable low-cost housing area, though, then you're saving costs that way.
About startup funds: usually there's a department fund in your name. You have to order things or provide account receipts for your expenses. Also beware that the account may have to be used up (or else lost) in your first academic or fiscal year.
There are a large number of good SLACS with average Assistant Professor salaries lower than 56k. I think that the cost of living in the area has a lot to do with it, since some of the top ranked schools are on the East and West coasts. In an area with a lower cost of living, I would consider 56k a great starting salary.
From a mid-tier R-1 in an area with a low cost of living:
$60K salary
3 course reductions
$6K research/travel money
spousal accommodation
$600 in library funds
1 month summer salary (if you get this, take this the summer before you start!)
My package combines what I got from the dept and the university administration
I just received a letter from Ursinus confirming they hired someone.
Some of you make it sound as if getting a job is based purely on hard work and merit. I think the use of the word "fortunate" is appropriate. Getting a job is often more related to things like the ranking of your graduate institution, who your adviser is and who your adviser knows, as well as a number of other random and mostly illogical criteria, in addition to scholarship. I know of candidates who have great records and interesting research, but due to other unknown factors, did not get a job. I am sure we would all like to believe that we got jobs that were based on a "rational" process, but as sociologists we should know better.
Not to prop up the meritocracy, but it also has a lot to do with where you apply. My offer is from a school where I had no connections whatsoever, but they didn't get a lot of applicants due to location.
Scholarly productivity and teaching excellence may not be the only criteria - we all know that other things matter - but there are a LOT of people on the market from top-5 departments who have well-connected mentors but are not getting jobs.
Job market "success" comes down to a whole lot of things including department prestige, network connections, publications, teaching ability, success landing grants, professional awards, congeniality, sub-field, mentors, and where you apply.
If I had a data set, I'd run a pretty logit model and know the exact influence of each, but I bet there's a lot of collinearity among the dependent variables ;)
4:33, thanks, that's helpful. We'll file that under the "no shit" category of research, just like most of the stuff in ASR.
4:33 You forgot to include race, gender, and your parent's social class.
I just got the details from the offer from a b-school. This is a R2 b-school in the midwest with a low-cost of living.
9 month salary: $110,000
$10,000 of summer salary for research for each of the first two summers
2-2 teaching load
$2,000 - moving expenses
New computer to my specifications
I know this is a little gross in the face of sociology salaries, but I put this out there for comparison. I would love to go work for a soc department, but no one contacted me. So I gotta go where I'm wanted.
Re: 6:40
Wow!
It would help me if I knew what people mean when they talk about tiers. Do you mean in terms of US News overall ranking, or do you mean ranking of the graduate program?
Liberal arts school in moderate cost of living area
$64k salary
$4k moving expenses
$4k summer research grant
computer of my choosing with software
course release in first year
base offer for private R1 in low-to-moderate COL area:
salary in low- to mid-70s
summer salary in first year
research account appx $40K
course release in first year
full moving expenses
conference travel (1 / year)
I have interviewed at a few schools (mostly private SLAC) and know that they do not offer close to what most people are posting here.
Anyone else think only those people with big $$ are posting their offer/contract? The postings just don't seem very balanced.
(No offense--congrats to those of you who are making the big bucks)
good cost of living comparison calculator
http://www.bestplaces.net/COL/
Well, there have only been 2 liberal arts college offers posted, so it's hard to say. Certainly 2 is not going to be representative.
In response to those wondering about SLACs, I negotiated (and accepted) the following offer at an eastern SLAC with low cost of living:
$56,000 salary
$3,500 moving expenses
$3,000 startup
$600 travel money to look for housing
Up to $3,000 yearly travel and research money
While it certainly doesn't compare with some of the offers posted above, I am extremely happy with it.
I'm surprised by the number of schools that have made offers and still haven't been posted as confirming hires. Is that just because the people who got the jobs don't post? Or are there a few people who are still deciding on which offer to take?
I have three friends with offers (anywhere from 1-3 offers) who are trying to negotiate positions for their spouses. That kind of thing can hold up the market for a while - sometimes it's tricky to work out, but often departments will try - and that takes time.
I also know two people with (at least) one offer trying to get their spouse hired. I think this is actually getting to be even more common. Sometimes it will work and sometimes not, but it will take a few weeks to figure that out. It sucks for the rest of us hoping to hear back before Christmas, as it kind of ties everything up.
My offer at a private R2 in a place with a high col:
$65k salary
$20k start up + research money (over 3 years)
$1k annually for conferences
$3k moving costs
3 course release in first 2 years (normal load is 2-2)
I received the following offer from a Tier 1 school in a low cost of living area:
65K salary
25K start up
6500 for moving
Up to 13K summer salary each summer
Annual travel fund of around 2K
1 course reduction for first 2 years
I am one of those people trying to negotiate a spousal hire at a research 2 school. For those who have been successful at doing this can you give me some advice. I feel bad that I'm "holding up" the job market, but so far I'm not having any luck getting spousal accomodations. Thoughts anyone?
Don't feel bad that you're "holding things up." You aren't--this is part of it.
I've known 2 people who've gotten their spouses a VAP position, in two different fields. In one case it was horrible, the department treated him like worse than no one. After doing a joint market run a year later, however, and getting joint offers somewhere else, she got a raise and he got a TT job in a related department at the same place.
In the other case they treated him very well and he did actually eventually morph into TT, though later than they'd thought. For them it was a combination of the school keeping good faith and the first hire being really really good.
Of course, we also know that these can end up with the spouse stuck in VAP mode.
Beyond that... I'd also be happy if someone were to post advice! Success stories, even?
I'm also trying to negotiate spousal hire at an R1 and would appreciate any suggestions or success stories! Does anyone know if it is possible to negotiate for a TT position not for the next academic year, but for the year following?
Given some of the ugliness over in the venting thread, I wonder if we should try to make this one more positive...
Congrats to everyone who has an offer and a contract signed! I'm sure you worked hard and really have earned your position!
I don't have any advice, but I just wanted to say that I don't blame people who are trying to negotiate a spousal hire for slowing things down. If my partner was an academic I would be doing the same thing.
Good luk to everyone!
That was supposed to be "good luck" to everyone.
Good SLAC in the midwest. Fairly low cost of living.
53K Salary
$2000 moving expense
new computer + my choice of software
$1000 library aquisition fund
Great travel money
3/3 load but only 3 preps during the first year (negotiated)
Got an offer from a teaching university in the midwest. It's a good fit, and I want to take it, but I feel like I need to really negotiate the offer looking at what others are getting on this blog. The offer is currently:
$46K (Low COL)
$1500 moving (can use any remaining for conf. travel)
4/4 teaching load with no course releases
Any suggestions on how to negotiate for more? I don't even know how to do it. Presumably you high-ball them, but I don't want to put off people I will be working with/for with something offensively higher than their offer. They are also hiring several other TT asst. profs. this year, so I worry that they would feel obliged to give anything I ask for (particularly in terms of course releases) to everyone, thus making my bargaining position very weak. But on the other hand I feel like this is my only chance to truly ask for what I want.
Help.
They are expecting you to negotiate. They are not going to change their minds about hiring you because you ask for more money. And, you need to ask for more than what you're willing to settle for so that they can get up to the number you need. You can do it!
12:43
My adviser, who LOVES to negotiate, suggested counter-offering with a 10% increase in salary, then negotiate for time. So, I'd ask for around $50,000 for salary. This is a teaching college, so presumably you sold yourself as valuing teaching. If that is the case, I would be hesitant to ask for course release (though they are unlikely to rescind the offer) but would instead suggest that you ask for fewer course preps or perhaps for a TA in a few of those courses. If you have time, check into how much it would likely cost to move, and tell them what the cost is, justifying any request you may have to up those moving funds.
Re: 12:43
Congratualations on the offer! Did they really contact you on 12/24?
I want to say that the offers posted on this board ave not a good way to see the average of the discipline. On the ASA website, it says that the average new TT assistant professor made about 52,400 last year. That means that half of them made LESS, but if you look through last year's "Hires" most people describe theur salary in the 60,000s. I excpet this year is will be about 53K.
As far as negotiating, I agree with the above poster that you should ask for $50,000, but I would expect closer to 47K. As far as classes, you should ask for 2-3 preps per semester. This will be a HUGE deal once you actually begin the job. It also shouldn't be too hard for the school to accomadate. I would ask for what your actually moving costs will be (often $3000) but not expect more than $2000.
Two notes-- first of all each new TT prof will negotiate separately. The school does not need to give all of you the same deal, so don't worry about that. Second, this is a really hard year to negotiate! You need to try to negotiate (my advisor says that they will respect you more if you do) and the school should be willing to bend a little, but don't be surprised if negotiating doesn't get you as much $$ as in other years. Remember that you can also ask for guarenteed summer classes for either 2009 or 2010 to augment your salary.
Don't forget to ask them whether a new computer and/or software is included! If it is not, you can negotiate for these items also.
RE 12:43
By the way, have you added your school to the "offers" list? I interviewed at a school with the exact same package and I am curious if it is the same school.
Here's my offer at a top public R1 in moderate COL area.
$60k salary
$5k summer salary for 3 years
1 course release in the first year (load is 2/2)
Small amount of money for desktop, journals, etc.
While I am thrilled to have an offer at this school, I am a bit frustrated because I know they are lowballing me on the salary. Unfortunately, I don't have a counter offer and this school is very unwilling to budge. I am trying to get some research funds, but it looks like even if I succeed, they would be minimal (like $1000).
11:56
Definitely seems skimpy for a top R1 school.
How do you know they are "unwilling to budge?" Have you already made a counter offer?
To 1:05, yes, I have tried, but the chair insisted that the dean would not go any higher on the salary. I am still waiting to hear back about my request for research funds. I know I'm not a great negotiator, but I think this place is particularly tough. I guess they are really using this economic crisis to nickel and dime incoming hires.
Have you compared the offer with the faculty salary survey? Maybe this is just typical for that institution: http://chronicle.com/stats/aaup/index.php?action=result&year=2008&state=&search=&category=&institution=0&offset=0&withRanks=1&sort=institution&showall=1
Very low cost of living Master's level institution in the Southeast:
52K (48 if I don't finish my dissertation on time)
about 2K research startup funds
1500 moving
3/3 with 2 new preps
12:43 here. Thanks for the advice- very helpful!
Low ranked R1 low COL - negotiated terms:
60K
3K moving
20K startup
1,800 travel per year
1 course release first year (2/2 load)
I don't think 60K is out of line for a public R1, esp. if it's in a state suffering budget shortfalls. To receive much higher, you'll need to find a rich private institution or have multiple offers to play off each other.
I do think that schools that can offer $65K or above will have better luck getting their desired new hires.
Re: 2:05
Perhaps not, but if you're referring to 11:56 what seems skimpy is the low salary in combination with practically no start-up funds of any kind - for a top R1 school. Certainly it doesn't seem to compare favorably with other offers listed here from similar institutions.
Agreed. That is certainly a low offer for an R1. The start-up costs should be in the range of at least 10 to 15k. I don't know how an R1 school can expect their new faculty to publish well within the first few years with 1k in start-up costs. But, in these times, I'd take the job, so best of luck to 11:56.
Thanks for all the feedback, folks. I did accept the job but at least I know that I should be getting a better deal!
Though I should say 9:17 that the salary is good for a low COL area. That is almost comparable to the salary of my best friend who is at an R1 but in a very high COL area. He has to work overtime to get internal and external grants to supplement the eye-popping rent, food, etc. costs. But, to have a job at a top pubic R1 in a low COL area is something a deeply envy. Just try not to let the dept increase your course preps in the first few years.
High-ranked R1 in low COL area:
$65k salary
$20k startup (includes computer; rest of office provided separately)
$3.5k travel/year
Full moving expenses
2-2 teaching, 1 reduction in 1st year
Pre-tenure sabbatical
Anyone else waiting for their written contract? Although everyone at the school swears up and down that it is a done deal, I will feel better when I have the written offer signed by the school!
I refused to accept the verbal offer given until I had a written offer letter in hand.
Has anyone else encountered a written, signed offer that explicitly says it is contingent upon approval by the university's president? I assume this is standard at many places.
A written offer is great, but it still feels like it's not a done deal. I realize presidential approval is largely a formality, but when/how does it happen, and is a new document (a contract?) issued after is happens? To put it another way, how do I know I absolutely, definitely have a job (or at least an actionable breach-of-contract case)?
For your contract to be a done deal, you need the President's signature - they control the budget. When I received my offer, the department waited for the President to sign it first before sending it to me for my signature.
11:40pm again...
I also wanted to mention that my adviser said that after you sign your contract, things get eerily quiet for quite some time. His advice was to try not to read into that because it doesn't mean anything.
In my case, I had to wait for the contract to be solid until the board met to approve my hire - which wasn't until May! But they assured me it was a formality, and indeed it was. It was a little scary.
7:17 here,
This whole issue (written offer/contract)is scary because in this job market it's hard to know that you have a job "for sure."
I have currently waiting on the written contract and I'm not sure what to tell other search committees who have asked if I am still interested in their position. So far, I have said that I am still interested--it will feel risky whenever I finally tell them I am withdrawing from the searches.
I'm in a hiring dept (I really can't say where), but I would advise people to keep interviewing even after you've gotten a verbal offer (or an informal offer from a dept chair and are waiting the formal offer from some higher-up). Things can definitely get pulled after you've gotten a verbal offer (or the verbal/informal agreements can get changed) and, as an earlier poster said, can even get pulled occasionally with a written contract. We are in danger of losing our chosen hire due to some issue at a higher level - our dept chair had informally contacted our choice and told them to wait for a call from a Dean, but b/c of this new issue, I don't think that call has been made. We don't know when things will be resolved, and we're not allowed to contact our choice to explain things.
I received a verbal offer, negotiated, and then received a formal letter from the Dean with the details of the offer (and asking for a written response by a specified date). The only contingency stated in the offer letter was that the tenure track position was contingent on my finishing my ph.d. by a particular date (and that if I fail to do so, the position would become a one-year adjunct post). No mention about all of this being contingent on approval by the President, etc. was made. Should I feel secure that this is set in stone at this point?
I would think that a formal letter from the Dean would be a pretty firm offer. I wouldn't worry it - congrats!
10:50 AM
It sounds pretty secure but I would get that PhD done as soon as possible. I was about to finish mine but until they got a letter from the Dean of the graduate school confirming that, my title was lecturer and my salary was 90% of what we negotiated. I did have the semester to finish the PhD if it was not done before I started but my status and salary would not change until they had that piece of paper from the Dean. I did end up finishing so it was never an issue but if I had not finish it before the deadline I would not have kept my job.
Low ranked PhD granting university in low COL area
low 60k salary+1 month summer
10k start up (includes moving)
1 course reduction for 2 years
Top-ranked R1 in high cost-of-living area. No salary, no course releases, no moving funds. I'm workin' for free baby!
Why is no one posted any more information on new hires? I keep hearing about offers going out . . .
If anyone's still looking... there's a new post on the 08-09 job hire thread for University of Illinois at Springfield. They start reviewing applications February 2 for an August 09 start date.
Are people taking offers with financial terms they are less than thrilled about if they really like the place?
Any idea how long it usually takes the department to get an approval from the present? I was offered a job by one department (verbally) They told me they had to get the present's approval for the writing offer before sending it to me. It has been almost 3 weeks since they told me they gave it to the present. My anxiety is brewing. Thanks for any information.
5:15, yes is the answer. Especially if you don't have other offers! No sense in holding out for another year, given that next hiring season looks to be worse than this one.
7:49,
That sounds like more of an existential question... I mean, can we give something to the present, or is it already the past by then...? It might cause a rift in the time-space continuum. I'd call HR to find out.
12:33 is just giving you s^#t. I'm sure you meant "president".
It varies a lot, by the general administrative efficiency of the institution and by that particular person's priorities of the moment. My offer also waited on somebody's desk for a good couple of weeks, but the Dean at another school gave the official approval to a friend's offer the same day the committee met.
I've been waiting 2 months for a written contract and have no idea if it's even made it to the president. Yes, I've inquired. Sanity has become a daily battle...
I thought I am the only on who has been going through bouts of anxiety over a written contract. My adviser told me to go about my business and assured me that everything would be fine eventually. I am almost going into Ross's confusion "did I? or did I not?" (friends)
The President needs to sign the offer before they send it to you? What if you get another offer during this two month wait? Do you take it on faith that it is coming?
The search committee chair told me that a written contract had to be approved by both the dean and the president before he could reveal it to me. I have been waiting without knowing any details about my offer, although he told me I would get a very good offer. Is it a usual practice?
To 7:18:
I do think it's standard practice to have the written contract signed off on by deans and presidents, but not revealing details to you? That's very suspicious to me...
Usually, offers are informally negotiated before there's a written offer. At the very least, they should be able to outline the basic content of your contract. If this hasn't been done for you yet and they won't give you any details when asked, you might think about having your advisor or department chair contact them on your behalf.
This partially depends on school policy. Another model is to send out an original written offer--that makes the offer official, which is a protection to you (and I did see that earlier conversation about the one rescinded offer after everyone signed everything, that still sounds extremely strange)--with the understanding that another written offer will be made after negotiations.
Some places don't let people even negotiate until the original offer is signed off on (which may be a Dean thing or may be a Dean and President thing, depending on the place).
That said, two months is indeed a long time to wait.
Offer from a state university in the midwest, no graduate program, very low cost of living:
$48,000
$1000 moving expenses
$6000 stipend for the summer after my first year pending budgetary approval
Computer of my choice.
I negotiated and ended up with:
$49,000
$1,500 moving expenses
$6,000 in the first year or sometime during my pre-tenure period.
Reduced class sizes.
Qualitative software
Computer of my choice
Let me say that I do not enjoy bargaining at all, but I did it anyway. I looked up the average starting salary for assistant professors and pointed out that they were offering me less than the average.
I got an online estimate from uhaul and was able to get them to bump up my moving expenses by $500.
Lastly, I asked them to reduce the class size for the two Intro classes I'll be teaching in the fall from 75/75 to 20/45.
Again, I don't like negotiating but I know that the gender gap in earnings stems, in large part, from women taking first offers. I only got a $1000 increase in base salary, but over time this will make a significant difference, since raises are given as a percentage of the base salary.
Hope this helps!
@7:44
What is the teaching load?
7:44 here.
The teaching load is 2/2 for the first year and 3/3 thereafter.
7:44, well done! Congrats!
For those that have been hired,(congratulations), would you be able to generally describe your publishing record, teaching experience, etc. to give an idea of "what it takes"?
It's very interesting to hear about pay conditions, but I think it would also be very useful to know the general credentials of those that have been successful. This would be very helpful for those of us that are trying to improve for next job hunt.
Thanks
I think that's an interesting idea. I got a job at a SLAC with the following record:
-ABD in a top 25 department
-Two semesters teaching an honors-level statistics course
-Ten semesters teaching in my department (including summers)
-Two semesters teaching at a commuter campus (concurrent with above)
-Departmental teaching award
-Two coauthored book chapters (one first author, one third author)
-Coauthored R&R in progress at a well-regarded journal
-Two additional papers in progress
-Five coauthored ASA presentations
-Three coauthored presentations at regional and other conferences
-Four years of service on departmental committees
-One book review
I have an offer in a top-15 department
-ABD in top-15
-seven publications (mix of single/first/multiple authored), none ASR/AJS
-ASA paper award
-developed and taught a class
-8 conference presentations
-external graduate fellowship
Can those who mentioned knowing people who attempted to negotiate a position for their partner/spouse elaborate on exactly how they did so? I am currently in a TT position on the west coast. My fiance looked for a job out here this year to no avail. he was just offered a position on the east coast (in history). we want to be together and have decided that he should take that job. how could he feel around to see if there's a possibility of something for me there? i don't really want to leave my TT position for adjuncting. But HOW does he actually go about having that conversation with the Dean?
10:04
They aren't going to revoke his offer because he inquires about a spousal hire. He might just explain that you have a tenure track position and ask whether they offer spousal hires or assistance for spouses trying to find employment. They might, they might not, but you won't know unless he asks.
There's been a lot of talk about journal articles and publication records in relation to job market success. I wanted to add some thoughts which come from my own perspective as a qualitative scholar and a book writer... I did fairly well on the market this year (as opposed to last year when I did not do nearly so well) at least partly because my dissertation project had been turned into a book manuscript and was already under contract. So my little bit of advice to the book writers out there is to talk to publishers quickly. Don't wait on this till later. Get the dissertation done and get it submitted to a press. If you can get a book contract before you send out your cv in the fall, this may make a big difference. I think having a book contract (and not just a manuscript in progress) really helped get my cv noticed.
For those that have been hired, how long did it take for the SC to contact you after your interview?
re:9:16am
two days in my case.
two days as well
One day.
just keep in mind it depends entirely on when the other interviews are scheduled. Someone who was the first to be interviewed might have to wait a month or more even if the dept makes a decision relatively quickly.
6 weeks. But I was the 2nd choice.
5 weeks. (I was first choice)
The longest 5 weeks of my life!!
for some it was weeks, others just days
along with 9:16's comment,
for those that waited awhile
to hear back (5 weeks sounds like
absolute torture), is there
ever a time where you would call the SC to ask how the process is moving along?
were you not tempted to call them after a month?
Two offers for postdocs at Rice have been made and accepted.
I explicitly asked the search committee chairs during my interviews when I could expect to hear back and then contacted them a few days after if the time had passed. At one institution I felt I had developed a pleasant relationship with the chair and hu was very understanding about my request (but I did not get the offer). In the other case hu was less forthcoming but I ended up getting the offer.
I think it's your call. If the search committee told you to expect to hear by a certain date and you haven't, then I don't think a friendly inquiry is unreasonable.
Re: 8:28
No, I didn't call because that was the week that they had told me to expect to know something. (I e-mailed SC chair after interview to find out about timeline since I forgot to ask during campus visit). If that week had passed without me hearing anything, I might have sent an e-mail, but only to the SC chair.
what salary range do the CUNY schools go for assistant professors?
Re: CUNY (and SUNY) salaries
All that information is publically available and searchable online.
CUNY is a unionized university. I guess the salary there is pretty much standardized.
The CUNY pay line can be found here:
http://www.psc-cuny.org/Salary/ProfessorialSeries.htm
For SUNY, there is even a website where you can look up the salaries of individual people by name.
I wont post it here, but the starting salary for assistant professors in the suny college system is 45.5k a year.
Many of the large newspapers in certain states post the annual salaries of state employees, including professors. They gotten the information through FOIA requests. Just do a google search on "state salaries" and you'll come up with a bunch. It's always interesting to see how much (or how little) some folks are paid.
I teach in the SUNY system, one of the smaller campuses. I've been more or less stuck here for 5 years (could have left after two but couldn't make it work for the rest of the family) and I can say that this campus is dreadful. People I talk to at other SUNY campuses are reporting similar or identical conditions. The pay is horrible and you can forget startup costs, moving expenses, ect. for run of the mill sociology positions. And that was before the whole state gov. started to tank. The whole SUNY system is on fire and sinking. Faculty who can leave are bailing out as they can. Travel funds are frozen, sabbaticals have been suspended in all but a few exceptional cases, classes are bulging beyond capacity, vacated tenured faculty are not being replaced, adjuncts almost outnumber the TT faculty, students (facing high unemployment rates) are demoralized and frightened, and now talk of retrenchment is starting.
If a SUNY offer is all you have I guess you're stuck with that or unemployment. If you have more than one offer, though, avoid SUNY like the plague.
Post a Comment